Housing pledge approved with calls on province

Yes, Council. Quick one. I'm just looking at what the motions are looking in particular at the one on the housing pledge, and I'm trying to line up appendix A And I'm not certain that I'm getting it because I see I see Attachment one. . And I don't know whether I missed something. Attachment one in Appendix states, same thing. Let me just give a quick look here. Yes, I believe Attachment one. Is The same as what's referencing the staff report. If that's what you're asking counselor at the motion, says Appendix, , a That's what I'm having problems with them looking for Appendix day and I'm at a bit of a bit of a disadvantage because they can't get to the you're you're correct. And so we would capture that in the minutes to ensure that that there is that accurate piece. But if you wanted to if you wanted to just make that, you know, just, you know, put up hand and just say, Hey, you know, quick, quick note. You can be more than welcome to do that When the

item comes up, somebody did call me about that. That's why I'm asking. E. Yeah, That's my understanding. It's it's a good It's a good point of clarification to ask. . Yeah. Miss Walkie. All right. Thank you. Okay.

Hello. I just want to do a test that my audio is in good working order. . Councilor class and, Yeah, got you loud and clear here. . Awesome. Thank you.

Okay, everyone. Welcome to those in person and those online. Thank you so much for joining us. It is our council meeting for the end of the month of February. 28th 2023. It's just after 4 30. . Especially calling the meeting to order here, However, it is a stated on the open agenda. It's outlining several issues that we have the ability to move into closed session to discuss and I'll just go through those. . So, , um the first one will be Bargaining mandate Report 12 Professional Firefighters association local 467 that's under section 2392 d of the municipal act related to labor relations or employee negotiations. . The second one is the Elliott Long term care Residents report Long term care home redevelopment that's under section 239 to be And K Other Municipal act relating to personal matters about an identifiable individual, including municipal or local board employees and a position plan procedure criteria or instruction to be applied any negotiations carried on or to be carried on by or on behalf of the municipality or local board and the final one. .

Is titled 70. Fountain Street, East Ontario. Land Tribunal Direction Follow up section 2392 F of the Municipal act relating to advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose. Those are the only three before I looked to a council. Is there any disclosure, pecuniary interests or any general nature thereof for those items? ? I don't see any or hear anything. You may I have someone look to move a motion for those three counselor. All will do that. Councilor Karen will second for me anything further on those three? ? Okay. Don't hear or see any so I'm going to call the vote. . Is anyone against that? ? And I don't hear or see anyone. Not, uh, not against that soul where that is unanimous vote so for those are joining in, uh, watching online or listening later on. We are going to have a closed meeting of council to discuss those three items only, And when I come back out, we will have a summary in regards to that. And so we will move into closed session now. .

Okay. Good evening. Everyone like to call the meeting to order at 6 30. It is February. Excuse me. February 28th 2023. This is our council meeting. . The end of the meeting month end of the month meeting. . Sorry. So, as I said, like to call that the meeting to order we did move into closed session earlier, , just around 4 30. . And so I just want everyone to be aware. Of do my summary. When I come out my high level summary, so the first one that we went into closed was in regards to the bargaining mandate report for the Golf Professional Firefighters Association. Local four successive in and council did give direction to staff in regards to that matter. . And then in the Elliott Long term care residents report the long term care home redevelopment. . Council received information from staff in regards to that, and we actually have a couple of motions. . Uh, about that that are going to be done in public when that item comes up on the agenda in order well, so we were reporting out fully

on that. . Um And then, in regards to the third one, the 70 Fountain Street East. The Ontario Land Tribunal direction follow up council also received information in regards to that matter. . And that's that's all that occurred there. So that's my summary just to close that up. Your pun intended because it was closed session. Did you get that? ? Thank you, Councilor Caller. Thank you. Uh And so I will continue by asking everyone to please join us all as we stand and recognize Oh, Canada. .

Yeah.

Right?

Great. Thank you so much. Everyone moving along in the agenda will just have our moment of silent reflection. . Great. Thank you, everyone. And as per your gathered, we're reminded that golf is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history and home to many First nations, , Inuit Maiti people today As a city. We have a responsibility of the stewardship of the land in which we both live and work. . Today. We acknowledge the Mississauga of the credit first nation of the initial bet peoples on whose traditional territory we're meeting tonight. . Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the items in front of us? ? I don't see anyone acknowledging that. So, uh, I say that there is none and I'll move. . Move. . Move on. . Right off the top. Before we go into some of the agenda items. We have a really great recognition that we want to take a moment to acknowledge for our city. . Specifically for actually our corporation.

We're taking this moment to celebrate an award for our organization. . Which will be today accepted by CEO Scott Stewart and our deputy CEO Trevor Lee. . I am very, very pleased that the city of Guelph was named one of Waterloo areas top employers for a second consecutive year. . From a council perspective. This award is very good news for organization as we seek to attract talent. . That we need and to retain our current skilled employees. . In order to deliver the best services, developed great programs and policies and provide the very best value for taxpayers dollars. . We need to have good people. . Employees really are the heart of everything that we do here at the city of Guelph. . On behalf of council. I want to congratulate our CEO Scott Stewart, Deputy CEO Trevor Lee and our general manager of human resources, Mark Ellis for this success, and I also want to thank and congratulate every single city of golf employee for the role that they play in making our city a great place to work. . With that. I want to hand it over to Scott, our CEO to say also a few more words. Great. Thank you very much. Mary

Guthrie, and certainly it is an honor as you mentioned for the city to go off to be named one of water loose areas top employers for a second year in a row. . And it's a privilege for both for Mark and Trevor and I to accept this award on behalf of the organization. This recognition reflects our dedicated and engaged employees in a progressive employee programs and benefits which sets us apart. . After all, the city doesn't get to be a top employer without great employees who support each other and collaborate across service areas and departments. It's really as simple as that. . And one of the pillars in our strategic plan working together for our future. . That is all about recruiting, retaining and developing our talented employees. So from where I sit this award is a testament to this progress that we're making on this pillar. It's not by chance that we were selected for this award two years in a row. We are truly became a top employment area, and I'm excited to see what's next for this amazing organization. So on behalf of the executive team, I think our employees for bringing their passion, their creativity, , their dedication to public service excellence. . And everything they do, and making the top employers list is a major accomplishment. And it's a reason to celebrate. . So thanks very much council

Great. Thank you very much, Scott. Anything further from Trevor Lee at all on this matter? No, Mr Mayor, I would see Trevor is looking forward to having his picture taken when you come down to present the award. That's right. So I want to do that right now. . Yeah. Let's do it.

And perhaps for counselors. Folks are making their way down. It's not every day that our our new general manager Lisa Duarte, is with us this evening, and she's coming down to take some pictures. So welcome to Lisa on Day two. .

All right. Well, thank you very much. And again. . Congratulations. . Right off the top. I'm looking for confirmation of minutes, , please. . From November 15th. . January. 10th 24th and 25th 2023. And the committee of the whole Meeting held January 10th 2023 to be confirmed as recorded and without being read with somebody Be willing to move that for me, Please Councilor Gibson is willing to move it. . Is there a second, er. Councilor Richardson. Is there anything further on those minutes? Seeing and hearing none. I'll call the voters anyone against the minutes. . Seeing none. That's unanimous. Thank you. We have the consent report in front of us from committee. . So right off the top. I'll just go through each one. If someone needs it pulled, please just get my attention. . With the region of Waterloo Organics processing contract. We have the 12th Greener homes Program update. Councilor Gore. Thank you. I'll go to you in a moment, , then. . And the track updates of the council memo for the proposed draft bylaw is included in that as well, Um, that was something new. I just wanted to highlight, , Okay? ?

Then we get into items for discussions. So, really, we only have the one that you have pulled. And I believe you did recognize that you want to make some commentary on that delayed. Um, is that right? So would you mind Counselor? Dollar moving consent on the other item first. Okay. Thank you. So on the organics plant, it's been moved. Is someone willing to second? That for me, Counselor? Busuttil is willing to do that. . Thank you. . And anything further on that consent item. Okay. Hearing. None. Is anyone against that? ? And I'm seeing and hearing none. So I That's unanimous on the golf greener homes program. Update over to you, counselor. Dollar. Uh, thank you and through your worship. I just wanted to take a couple of months moments to think staff for all the work they have been doing over the last couple of years to bring this program online have already had a couple of constituents reached out asking. How do I apply for this grant? ? Ah to make improvements to their house, so I know there is the appetite out there. The next steps is after tonight's approval is for staff to finish and then start promoting the program. So I very much look forward to that. And thank you very much for all your hard work. This is an

important next step in helping Wolf achieve its targets to be a carbon neutral city. Um, in the future. . Thank you so much. . Thanks to worship Great, Thank you and count service until Thank you. I have similar comments. But it's taxis in and so I organized community volunteer income tax programs in the community for low and moderate income households, and I've had conversations as well. And I just wanted to echo what I had raised last time around, um, opportunity to access the program and really urge staff to equity of opportunity. Equity of access, really put that at the forefront of some of our modest income. . Earners who have homes who could benefit greatly to this from this program. . My conversations. Where that no. This was out of out of their capacity to access. And yet when I look at their financial, uh, circumstances this is something that could deeply benefit these families. Um, So thank you again. I'll be watching for that. The equity lens through this at the start of program development and not as something as an afterthought. .

Thank you. Um, with nothing further could actually look to the two of you to move and to second that would that be okay. . Thank you. . So anything further on this before I call the vote. . Hearing and seeing now and as anyone against the greener homes program. . So that would be nobody. That's unanimous then as well, , Thank you very much. . I We're going to move on to then the items for discussion and I am going to go to the integrity Commissioner 2022 annual report first only because I've been told it is very quick because there was no real issues at all. Which is another year and another good thing to here, So I'm going to go to that first and then in the wings. I'd like John Fisher. I did see you come in joint, you'll be next to come and speak to the next item. . So at this time, I'd like to ask Joy Mascara in the integrity Commissioner. . From air numberless LLP to join us. I believe John might be, uh, coming in. Yes. . Hi, John. Can you can Yes, we can hear and see you and it looks like you can hear me. Okay. So thank you very

much for joining us again. We appreciate it. And we know that you're here for the 2022 annual report from you. So I will be quiet and turned the mic over to you to give your presentation. Go right ahead. Thank you very much. Mr Mayor, members of councils my pleasure to appear before you again. I was there two weeks ago. You may recall and we did some training. It is covered in the Ah, in the report. You didn't need any training last year you had received it previously. But that's covered off in the annual report. This is our second annual report, which covers the calendar year of 2022. As you know, we were appointed integrity Commissioner Back in the believe late Ah 2021 we took over from your previous integrity Commissioner were We're very appreciative of the opportunity to be the integrity commissioner for the city of wealth. You'll see that there really were no problems last year. Our report shows that as you all know, there are two primary functions to the services that the integrity commissioner provide. . The first one is

Um, is an investigative enforcement mechanism and we've covered that off on the first page of our report, where we talk about complaints that we investigated. In fact, we were investigated six complaints. Five of them were identical. They were all filed against the same member. The sixth one was very similar, but slightly different. I think there was a bit of a in my view a bit of a piling on On here. I think there was an effort A concerted effort between individuals to File complaints against the particular member of council who would express their political beliefs and statements. We found that that language was protected under the charter, and it did not contravene the code of conduct. Therefore, after our initial inquiry, our review of the case law, , other integrity commissioner's reports. . We made the determination that there was no basis to proceed with a full investigation, and we suddenly dismissed all six of the complaints all at once. So that took care of all the complaints. There was

no other complaints against any other council member. Not even any informal inquiries. I do not believe we received actually any Um residents wanting to file any complaints, but then did not do so. That often happens where people reach out to us speak to us a little bit about it and then decide, perhaps not the final complaint. We didn't even receive any inquiries for complaints on the next page. This is at the top of Page two. We talked about the advice giving role that we have as an integrity commissioner. Um and I've said this to counsel many times, it's the big, , unheralded benefit. . Of the whole system. This seeks to prevent, um any breaches of the code of conduct any other ethical policies, guidelines or rules that the municipality may put in place and potentially any breaches of the municipal conflict of interest Act. You can reach out to us on a confidential basis, and we can provide written advice to you as members of council in an effort to seek to prevent any contravention. . Ah, I must say Council members were really terrific.

When you're asking for advice. You don't just reach out and say we'd like to speak to you. That's not really the purpose of asking for written advice. The purpose of the written advice request is to give us the background information to make us aware of any items that might be on the agenda by including a link and, , uh To the credit of the four people who reached out to us. You did that You gave us great background information. I think only in one instance that we have to go back and get some additional information and clarification. Now I state that because for the new members of council who made not be aware the wording in the municipal access that you can make a request, but it has to be in writing for our advice. . So the request isn't just cave, Mr Mascara. Can we meet with you on this date? Or can we talk to you? It's here are the facts that I, um, that I'm concerned about. And here is the question that I have here in the background documents and again to your credit, all members of council, One member of a local board who reached out to us asked us those questions in that. . Great, comprehensive way, which saves a lot of

time, energy and costs of the municipality. As you see, we are. We've set out the advice in an anonymous form. When we're reporting on a periodic basis, we have to do it in a non itemized generic form. We cannot disclose confidential information and you'll see there was four requests for advice last year. . So I'll just run through them very quickly and again. At the end of this my presentation. I'm happy to take any questions from council. The first advice was I'm employed by the entity that may be coming in front of council asking for something. Do I have a problem in the answer as well? You don't have a problem if you actually do what we tell you to do it, and in this case, it was. You haven't indirect pecuniary interest under Section two of the municipal conflict of interest Act. . No, , you are not. . Participate in any of the discussions. Uh, at council on that. Okay, so that's number one. . Number two was a really interesting question. Now, typically, you was members of council are allowed to reach out to us to ask us advice with respect to your own obligations under the code or under another

ethical policy or guideline or municipal conflict of interest act. But the question in this case was very interesting, and I decided to respond to the member even though the member was not acting about his Particular situation the member was asking about. Potentially Could the city impose a code of conduct on a another entity for which it provides funding and the answer was no. There's no authority under the municipal act for the municipality to do so. I clearly understand the reasoning behind the question. . But no, there is no authority under 5.1, part 5.1 of the Municipal act for the municipality to do so. The municipality canon polls, it could've conduct, of course, for members of council and for members of local boards. In fact, it's required to, but it doesn't have an authority to reach out. Beyond that two entities on which it doesn't really have control. . It just provides Some funding or contributions to that to that entity. The next one was The question about the disclosure of confidential information. And

last year you may recall, I made reference to a case called Fallis and are really it's a case where a council member decided to act unilaterally and disclosed confidential information in order to get his own legal opinion about something that the city solicitor had already commented on. . Um, So your code of conduct writes the prohibition. In absolute terms. However, there are exceptions. The court in the fall Ist and Aurilia case recognized that there may be instances where a council member in an in camera setting may receive information for which they may need to seek, um, legal assistance, perhaps for a personal liability, perhaps for some other reasons, , So we indicated to The member that it may be appropriate in certain very limited circumstances. . For the member to possibly disclosed confidential information, But the members should reach out to us to get advice on on those member ended up asking us for advice but not going and pursuing it any further. So rest assured that there was no confidential information that was

given out to anybody in this particular case, But we did indicate that it could be a possibility. Um, and that any members who have any concern that you received confidential and Formacion. And might need to possibly seek the assistance of a qualified, licensed lawyer or paralegal should really reach out to the integrity commissioner to us to see if it's appropriate to do so. We would likely consult with the city solicitor, So I just want to be clear about that. And then finally, there was a question about a gift or benefit, the council member indicated. . That they had received a, uh, gift benefit that they were uneasy about the benefit. Uh, clearly was valued at less than the amount that you are entitled to receive under your code of conduct. Yet the council members still felt a little bit uneasy and queried weather. There had been other gifts possibly made to other council members. . Um We provided our advice on that and again just to be reminded. There are certain provisions dealing with gifts benefits in hospitality. Yes, you are entitled to

receive a gift or benefit of nominal value and of a certain dollar amount that you need to disclose. Um and above that you can, However, the perception to the public of receiving A gift is Is there a quid pro quo? Uh And so the perception always is, Is there something untoward is happening? So please, Please be careful. Be very mindful and cautious when possibly receiving any gifts. Any doubt you can always reach out to us as an integrity commissioner in this case Because of the concern of the council member, , we decided To reach out to the individual, Um, who appeared to have provided the gift and just reminded the person that there was, um, a limit under the code of conduct and that the perception maybe for any council member, and we had also asked to look at the staff code of ethics or code of conduct. . Just to see if there was a mirror identical provisions, and there was and so we cautioned the person that clearly, uh, any gifts um, benefits to staff or two council members have to be very You have to be very careful about doing so.

That might raise the perception that something untoward is happening. Which person indicated they certainly didn't want to happen. . And, , actually, , um Reply to us very respectful and very courteously. So there was really no no issue there that we have to pursue any further. Um, so with that, I think I've I've pretty much highlighted everything that's really in there. Um, we, as I indicated, provided education and training to you a couple of weeks ago. I hope it was well received by members of council. Uh, I don't know that there's any need to repeat that again unless there's any concerns that arise and if If they if they do, I will be sure to to let your clerk no, and we can always follow up with that. . Um, as integrity commissioner we often partake of, um ah, the conferences that the municipal integrity commissioners of Ontario put together. We had hosted the conference. I think it was the fall conference 2021. We did attend the conference. 2022 did present a paper presentation at that conference. . Um, with that I have nothing more to say.

Mr Mayor, I probably set enough. Um, I commend members of council a last term and throughout 2022 for seeking us out for advice when they felt that they needed it, and for not getting themselves into any trouble that we felt merited and investigation and report to council, So with that, Mr Mayor, I stand down, but I'm happy to take any questions that Any member of council may have on the actual report or any other questions that anyone may have. So thank you. . Thank you so much, John. We appreciate you coming and giving this update to us. Let me see if there's a follow up. . It doesn't look like there is so, uh, thank you very much again. And we hope to never hear or see anything of you until next year. When you just give us an annual report. I'd like that to thank you again for the opportunity and Mr Mayor, Members of Council again. We're honored and privileged to be the integrity Commissioner for the city of golf. I commend you again for your efforts in the ethical responsibility regime and let's hope we don't talk again till next year. . Q Goodnight. Thank you and have a good night as well. All right. We do have a recommendation in front

of us here. And that's there's any questions to staff. I'm sorry. I should just ask any questions of staff know, Okay, it would be willing to move. Um, they're receiving of the annual report from the integrity commissioner. Counselor. Downers willing to do that for me, Counselor collar is willing to to second that. Thank you anything further. . Seeing and hearing known. I'll call the vote then as anyone against receiving this report And no one is raising a fuss on that. So that is unanimous as well. Thank you so much moving back to, uh, the operations facility. Long term plan Update. We have one delegation that has come forward John Fisher, the president of the Golf Hiking Trail Club, and John, You've been here before, So I think you know the drill. It's no more than five minutes and I'll start the clock as as soon as you start talking and you can go right ahead. Thank you for joining us. . America councilors and city staff. Um, I delegated the first stop presentation. Of the operations Facility Cut Consolidation Plan study in May of 2021 The purpose of my delegation, then was to caution Council the Beaune alert for unintended unintended consequences. I

listed five of them and maximize the opportunities to $200 Million project presented. . We ask counsel to request staff to expend study area to include the Trail Development and open space implementation plan, which would link the operations campus employment hub to other parts of the Djibouti end of the city Trail Network. . Regrettably, that didn't happen, so we were pleased that after the study Staff has recommended a scaled down version of the Operation site plan. . And made references to the to the growth, hiking Trail club, third party trails and preservation of an already zoned proposed part and buffer zones. . The create study even has recommendations on how the city could maximize special features like the quarries to attract tourists and residents alike. . However, the operation facilities plan is still being treated as a discrete entity. . Just with a smaller footprint. It does not consider other integrated site development improvement opportunities. . From a trail funding perspective, we are told that

constructing trails in new areas is most feasible. One construction takes place prior to or concurrently with the construction of other infrastructure. . And their alignment with other city infrastructure projects is the top consideration in making decisions about which trail projects to work on. . Most of the citizens of golf and not going to appreciate the value or be directly impacted by the $200 million the city is playing to spend on the operation facilities development. . Delivering a recreational trail in park system next to the development makes the whole project more relevant and can be revenue generating as a tourist destination site. . 12 Trails Master plan differs to the Growth Innovation District Secondary plan to determine trail development on these lands and give direction to developers. . As the first G I D development project, which is on city owned, , not private property. . The city has an opportunity and a responsibility to set

the example for other GI developments consistent with the award winning GI Division. . We would like council to consider requesting staff to develop a parallel trail development and open space plan for the G eight sites. . That would be an integrated development. With the proposed 200 million Operations Facilities Infrastructure project. The plan would maximize the heritage ecosystem that exists adjacent to the operation, , facilities say. . And including the Quinlan's bridge, the existing G HTC tertiary trails the proposed new park, the O R quarries, the Trestle Bridge and the Toronto Suburban Railway bit It would link the operation facilities employment hub to other parts of the GI D end of the city Trail Network. . Thank you. Thank you, John. Appreciate it. And let me just stop the clock here. And let me just see if there's a follow up question in regards to this from council. . Does it look like there is? Yes, there is. I'm sorry, Counselor. Cayton has one. . Go ahead. .

Choose a mayor and I want to ask a question to staff about this. . Now or it hit and sure she's not be happening later. . Yeah. No, it's okay. We can say we can say goodbye to our delegation. If there's nothing further, it looks like you're the only one. Um and so we'll we'll say thank you to your joint. Appreciate your time here, and I will go to questions of staff now because the item is automatically pulled due to the delegation anyways. So why don't I go while the first see if I can get the recommendations put on the floor. . So counselor Downer is willing to do that in a secondary, please For that. Thank you. Councilor Busuttil is willing to second. Um And so, counselor Keeton, I'll go to you for a question, And I also would like to go to Councilor Downer as well. I do know Council or Rourke has an added, uh, motion in regards to this as well. That needs to be tabled. So do you, , Counselor, , Keaton. . Thank you to staff. I was just wondering what the Potential cost or feasibility is to Mr Fisher's request because it seems like it would be quite a lot of value. .

So through the Merida Council, Keeton, we haven't I don't have a direct answer for you on the cost. What I would say to all of council is that we absolutely understand and are in agreement with the need to consider trails as part of this project as we do for many of our projects and through our trails, Master plan. This work is already underway. Um And so we have a number of guiding documents that are park staff are working with that are helping to shape this operations Campus project but also with a lot of the capital projects that we do. . We look at trails and how we can incorporate trail connections into any other projects we're doing. We've had site meetings with our park staff on this site already, Um and so we will continue that approach as the as this project progresses, , and so We We? We don't need specific direction from council on this because it's already integrated within staffs. Work plan for our parks and trails team and I'll just look to Decio homes to see if she wants to add anything. Sure, thank you and through the mayor to counsel Kate in just to build on what Colleen was mentioning that, , um The as a delegate mentioned with a smaller footprint. There is an opportunity now to include, um in a more fulsome way. Um, the trails and

the trail connections as mentioned, And so we as as we've already had already started those discussions with our cultural heritage staff. And with our, um with our trails partners, , so Um The good news is, is that the there's more of an opportunity now to include some of those trail connections that were concerned when this project came back the first time, um in 2021, so we'll continue those discussions and as Decio de cl Clark Bush mentioned we don't need a specific uh, um, direction on this, because quite frankly, we're already doing We're already doing those discussions and doing that work. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you, Councilor Downer than O'Rourke. Thank you to you, Mr Mayor. I had asked today earlier, too about whether we needed a motion to direct staff to do this or not, And I heard a similar answer What I was wondering, , though. . Um, So when this comes when the you know the site plan comes back, and more detailed work comes back to council where we will we see Were that trail or park work has evidence of that in that work that you bring back. Um I just

think it would be good for us to keep To be updated on that on that on what you're doing and what those discussions are. If those discussions are happening around this, I certainly like to know about it in future updates that we have around this project. . Will that be happening? ? Um, through the marriage, a counselor Downer? Yes, we will be including that information. I'll just point out that at this point, the site development is very much at its infancy. Yes, yes, We don't have anything to show here. And as we continue the development of the site proper, um all those amenities. They may not be developed at the same time, but we can certainly show you where we are and what we're thinking in terms of our discussions with all of our staff partner. . It's not about development. . Like developing them at the same time, unless they make financial sense, of course, But I mean, it certainly helped to plan for them now, so we know how they're going to be incorporated into the whole park system and trail system. . Thank you. Thanks and overdue. O'Rourke, please. Thank you, Mary Guthrie. I have a question pertaining to the trail piece and then emotion through you to staff. . Um, trying to keep in mind that all?

Discussions or budget discussions. So should we proceed with a trail or open space at this location? Does that displace other trails that are in the approved trails? Master plan, or does it displace other plans and expenditures within the parks and open space plans? ? Um, so through the mayor to counsel a rock at a high level, it's certainly not our intention. Intention to ever displaced other trails. We look at our trail system in a holistic way. Um and and make sure that we are prioritizing where we can get the biggest bang for the trail back as it were, but also to maximize those appropriate locations. And this certainly seems to lend itself to, um to trails in this location. What we always do have to balance is the capital budget and the workload pressures And so we do look at our trails priority. . Realization from that perspective as well, which is the capital budget needed in the staff resources. And so I don't want to say that it will automatically bump another trail, but it will continue to factor into our broad conversations about how we prioritize as we look to this site. . Three America three to stop and so Should this project then displace another project? I'm thinking

back to the night of the trails. Master plan where the counters from ward for we're talking about, you know, trail equity and access and those types of things that there are reasons that those Trails were prioritized. And there are reasons why park spaces where it is in the in the budget and whatnot. . I'm not challenging at all the Connectivity on a city site or or or you know if there's contingency being able to do that. . But if one of those top 10 trails or some of the parks that are planned Are displaced. Does that come back to council for consideration through the mayor? I think the way that we would consider this and bring it back to you for consideration is through that multi year budget process. And so Mr Matthews and his team are looking at all of that prioritization as we look towards the multi year budget, and that's broader than this project. But we will certainly look at this in that context and make sure that we're updating you and providing you those updates in advance of that multi year budget process so that you have that awareness. . Thank you. My my concern is around budgeting and also leapfrogging, , so I appreciate that. . Um, counselor work. Do you mind if I just ask my question on a trail issue and then right back to you? Would that be okay? So there's there was no one else So okay. Thank you. Can I just ask I first of

all, I totally agree with Deputy CEO homes that says in its emphasis, E like, Look at what? Welcome what? We're voting on here, right? ? Like it's So early. But when it gets to a stage of more detailed design opportunities, I mean, we already have through the Parks Department and the Golf Hiking Trail Club at really great partnership. . Would they be enabled to be included earlier on when it gets to that stage for them to give some feedback around like, Hey, we're thinking, you know. Have you thought of this? Have you thought of that before? It kind of comes back to us to show us you know a bird's eye view of where things could be? ? You know, in a year or two or three or you know down the road. Is there at least an opportunity for them to be part of the conversation around where it could be where this could be. That could be then for them to be reactive. . To say to see it as as a shock because they've been such a good partner to begin with through the mayor. Certainly, and I would hope that they wouldn't feel that they're in a reactive position because we have such a great collaboration and with all of our trails stakeholders because there are a number of different stakeholders who we interact with, But of course, they are a valuable partner. And so we will

continue that dialogue as we do and make sure that that is coming back to council for your consideration. Okay, , perfect. . Councilor Rourke. We already have the main motions already on the floor. But you have I would call it 1/4 1. . Why don't you present that for our consideration? Um, well, actually, maybe, Uh, you want to call it as an amendment Do you want to do as an amendment, and then we can just vote on all four, or do you feel like it would be really It's really your choice as chair. I mean, you can I think I'd rather just do all three. I'm going to interrupt you. I'm sorry. Do you mind if I just called to vote on three? And then I'll go to you for number four. I think that would be the easiest, , Okay. . Thank you, Councilor. Billings. Did you want to say something before I call the vote? ? Yes, because I just need clarity and and I did read Counselor or Oaks amendment, which is the operations facility, But then cause one is the separate. . It's the transit. . Um uh. And Fleet facility for the design. So I was wondering I know what's in the infancy stage. However, When do you think that Um, city staff could come back to council with the preliminary design and all the costs capital and operating

For for council to see and for preliminary approval. Through the mayor to councilor Billings. Um at this time we're expecting as we go through detailed design that will probably take us through to the end of I would say, 2024, I would say, say, Q 3 2024, we would probably have some more better defined costs based on an advanced design that we would be able to share with counsel. . And that would be in time for, um the budget at that time as well as we go through into 2025. . Okay and then also through your worship. If, let me think if that's if that's the case. . How can I put this? I'm still reeling. I think over over committee of the whole with the with the dollar amount associated with this. So in the design is Is it possible even or do you ever have sort of like plan A and plan B for design, meaning this is the most expensive So this will be around the 250 million. But this one is more open concept where we don't have to house every bus and so it would be a lot less. . Is that something that can be brought forward to counsel or is it you're just going to come forward with the one design and what you think, and that's it. .

Um, through the mayor to councilor. Billings, Um We were talking about and that type of facility like this. It's a little bit different than say, um, a library or below the rec center where we might have some, um, consideration for different kind of program elements for the ice up loan. Um, we are sorry that I said grants that we are. . That we have. We have to fulfill certain requirements and in order to make sure that we have, um, making sure that we're making full use of that site and, um, making sure that we're getting, uh, the best value for money through that grant. Um, we would probably come up with just one design. There's not a lot of options that we might be able to provide. But if there is We certainly bring that forward at the time. If we thought that there might be some pressures on the budget, that some of those, um some of those options might relief. . Okay. Thanks, Jane. Alright, everybody, So thank you. I'll look to, um, call the vote then just on these three, and then I'll go with a counselor. Work. Okay? Is there anyone against the

first The first three? ? Okay, so seeing no one in the scent on that I'm going to call that as a unanimous vote and ah, good counsel or work to table a motion she'd like to bring forward. . Thank you, Mary Guthrie. So, quite simply, um, Motion three that just passed has staff bringing the operations facilities long term plan. . Ah and seeking approval through the multi year budget process. . What I would like is to propose a motion and clerks have it. It's actually thank you that prior to the multi year budget process staff providing information report outlining anticipated costs and revised timeline for the operations facilities long term plan, so I don't know if I have a second order. . Um I don't see Richard Central will second that Thank you. . If I can just explain why All of our council meetings are budget conversations, and so I am very hesitant to simply Put the entire plan multi year plan Multi multi million dollar plan to send that directly to budget and then to have the conversation at budget time. What I'm

asking for is just an information report. . Prior to the UM multi year budget process that will give us more information. . Perhaps some, you know, um, costing perhaps a revised timeline, but it allows us to digest and potentially debate that information before it goes straight to multi year budgeting. . Thank you. Is there anything question wise on that? ? I hold a counselor Downer, , please. . Thank you to you, Mr Mayor, So I'm not really clear, , so there's a big Difference between an information report. Which is providing information. And a decision report. Where we debate So we don't often debate and information report. And and I'm just so I'm just a little concerned that that the Your intention then is to debate and information report. . Because we That's not what we do. We debate decisions and information is staff giving us an update on things. So let me just sorry you continue with I just want to go down just a little concerned

about the wording. . I don't want to get into It's as we heard. This is a really weird it really preliminary stage with this and we've got new information and and staff were very careful not wanting to give We reluctantly pulled a number out of out of whatever hurt deputy CEO is the last time and and I don't want to force them into a situation and providing, um, information prematurely that we might potentially be debating on when it's not fully. . It's not a fully informed when they don't have that information yet. I don't mind getting an information report. . On the sheets, but I'm not sure that I want to be debating it Preliminarily. Like what? When it's that preliminary, that's I don't know what staff are If they hear that distinction or not let me just go to our deputy homes. And then about two the mover, , okay? ? Thank you. And, um, do you, Mr Merritt and through the counselor, Downer. So part of our what we're hearing is a lot of angst about, um, how we budget for these big projects. Um, and then, in particular

with the the APP ops campuses that there are some other, , um there are some other Um Facilities down the road that also have to be, uh, renovated. Um as people move out of some buildings and move into the ops campus, we may reuse them. We renovate them, Um And I think there's some angst about how much that is all going to cost. . Um, So we were thinking that in talking to council O'Rourke, if if the information comes report comes forward, saying, time for the multi year budget, um, this for 24. We're not going to have meant money refined numbers for that The design is not going to be that far ahead. But what it might do is help explain where those placeholders are in the long term capital program, um, where you can see them and how we plan for them. . And then we're all the other facilities are As well, along with the timeline. Um, when you jump a year ahead and you get to 2024. Now we're prepping for the 25 budget again. There will be another opportunity to get an information report ahead of budget with those more refined numbers, so you can see the difference between where

we started and where we are ending up as we get closer to tender and again an opportunity for you to ask any questions before. . We go into budget. Our plan always was without those information reports to have those drop in sessions for council so you can ask questions about where we are what we're doing, how we plan for them how we finance things. Um, , so you have that. . Peace of mind that we have We have a plan for all this and not just for the Ops center. But for all the other projects as well, and in fact, I'm talking to our treasure. We thought it might be useful for counsel to do. And I know you've been workshop to death. But perhaps in September, we do another workshop that talks about, um, the capital program. . All the projects and we would include the Ops center in that, but it shows you how we plan for it, how we finance it. Um, all the different funding sources and our thoughts are also around asset management as well because that ties into when we renovate certain facilities and when we don't so that That was our plan. Um And so, with with this motion going forward, we would fulfill that

by putting together an information report in September. Um, where again? We're not. We're going to have placeholder numbers. They're not going to be that refined yet because we're not that far into design, but it will give you a chance to start. . Asking questions about where we are where we are with the design. . Um How we're going to plan to financing for that, because as part of the 24 multi year budget, you're going to have those placeholders in there again. Jump ahead a year, You'll have more find numbers. . Does that make sense? ? Oh, yes. Um, thank you. That makes perfect sense. And that looks, you know, sounds like the way we you know, have moved forward in the past might My My angst is is confusing Those information reports with decision points. . And and, um Not to use them to pull and and and change projects here. They're in a in a premature way without having, um, the foursome information and and all that we need in order to make those decisions.

. So it's about premature decision making, , um As opposed to getting information and asking questions so as long as as long as the intention is clear. . What this is For. Then I can support it. . But when I heard Yeah, I heard the word debate. It made me question. Your intention comes for work. So, um, I would like some reassurances that it's not an intention of yours. Duke make this a decision making point, although that's a budget time, , right? ? So I'm going to go to I'm gonna go to council work. But can I just say something? Because I would like you to respond to what I'm about to say as well. So if you don't mind I am hearing and seeing a lot of positive nods in the room around this September workshop. . So I'm just wondering if your motion all of a sudden even required Because if we are going to have a fulsome workshop about all of our capital projects are asset management plans, , and if that workshop is going to include costing Then we would be able to actually have a a public meeting where it's not a debate because it's a workshop. . But we get the numbers. We get the clarity.

It's it's done in a I feel sometimes in a better way in a better atmosphere and a better arena than just an information report that some people read and some people don't some people see it. Some people don't I would. I would almost feel like if we are going to have a workshop in September, which would be before the multi year budget anyways, , What's your motion? ? Outlines. And if it's going to encompass all the same stuff that your motion is trying to grab I would just say. Let's just have the workshop and let's have a great conversation about it in that arena than to have it. . Than to have it only on an information report or will have this part this motion passed will have an information report. . And then we're gonna have a workshop with talking about all the same stuff sort of anyway. So it's like a double whammy. So I just say that as a as a as a as an idea for us to consider right back to you, though. Your motion is definitely still on the floor. I just wanted to give that take. . Thank you, Mary Guthrie. So through you to Councilor downer and council, um the intent is to have an ongoing line of sight and awareness of where the numbers are going in the timelines, etcetera, because Motion three that just passed talks about go ahead and

plan and design these, you know this long term plan and put it in the budget. . And I think it is helpful for council to keep to be aware just getting the size of this plan to have periodic line of sight on it. Um, so I would like an information report. America three because in addition to the workshops of the workshop will be all of asset management, all of capital planning. . It's So we won't spend, you know, um, the workshop talking about the operations facility is it will be an example. . But I think an information report, uh, is focused and provides a periodic update, and every year can be more and more refined. . Um and gives counselors and opportunity to ask questions in advance of budget. Look, we're going to have a four year budget next time around as opposed to this confirmation budget we had this year, four year budget. It's a half billion dollar operating. There's going to be a lot that we are referring to the four year budget over the course of this year, , and I think given the size of this Project projects. I would like a focused information report, , and that's what I'm asking for. .

No, no. Hey, perfect. I appreciate your response to me 100%. And And I appreciate that on on this point, though, um on counselor Orcs motion. Ah, again sticking to the motion. That's on the four. I'm going to go out and Gibson Thank you, America three. Um, just if we could please. I would like to have the motion on the screen as well. Um, but my questions initially were to stop that there was someone answered in sponsors to counselor down. But the question that comes out of the response by Councilor War or work is, , um Will the discussions in the workshop be refined, or will they truncate any specific focus on the operations facility? I think that's at the heart of what counselor work is really trying to get at. And if a workshop addresses it in a refined fashion, I'm quite fine with that and think that this could potentially be redundant. . I think the question is, What should counsel I know it's also early on. But what should Council

expect in this September ish workshop to the point of focused as as what it could be or not focused, And I think that's what counselor also asking. Sure. And so, um through you, Mr Mayor to Councilor Ault, , Um This is just again. The thought of this workshop is still in its infancy so we can we can set it up any way you'd like. Um I do see the point, though of when we're looking at the full capital plan. I think we're council workers going with this is that, um the the Ops center would be in there but not necessarily with the same amount of detail that, um, that some of the counselors might be looking for What we could do is we could issue the information report. . It is with all the information on it. And then that would inform the workshops so that you have that information in hand. We can always ask any questions about that, and we can also do drop in sessions as well. . Thank you. That's much appreciated. Yeah. Great. Thank you very much. Gibson and Richardson. . Thank you through Mr Mayor. . So, , um I really like the motion and I'm almost until I

heard the word workshop. I was going to support it, but I think it does need to go a bit further. I would like another touch point, um, outlining some of the costs and timelines for the operations before it comes to us in budget. . Ah, for the sole reason that you know. I've I've I've been at budget before, and I hear counselors say we don't debate policy or projects that budget, and so if we have an issue with the timelines and the pace, we don't get to talk about that a budget and I'm almost assuredly be voted down if I wanted to, , so I think it's very important that we have another touch point on this file before we get to budget so that we can have the conversation. . About legitimacy Timelines budget pace. Um and and then, when it comes to budget, , it's a yes or no. . But I I You know, I we've all listened and we've all heard the conversation ended. . Stopped at budget time because we're not debating policy or or or projects so I think it's a valid. I'm not sure information report gets us there because, as councilor, Downer said, You know, we don't want to be debated an information report. I don't disagree, but maybe it should be an agenda item. . So, um, maybe I'll pose it back to the

Mover. Is there something that you would consider Moving is just simply reporting back to council in a formal way, , rather than just an information report. . And maybe that maybe the workshop solves it. I don't know. . America through through you to Councilor Gibson. Um, So we've had the conversation with staff, especially for this September. . And we just heard you CEO homes articulated There likely won't be enough information on the operations facilities long term plan by September. . And so they will likely be refined information on the transit and fleet. . Um, project Um, And so it's on that basis that I'm just looking for a little bit more information to councilor Downers point, , um The intent is to have the information on necessarily to debate it. But nothing precludes a counselor from polling information report. Nothing precludes a counselor from asking questions to staff and and actually, in the instance where there is also a workshop or drop in sessions. It creates a venue to have that conversation prior to

budget and that's my intent. My intent is to keep a line of sight. . On what is significant. Um, expenditure or series of expenditures. That is my intention. . Okay. Thank you. And Richardson is last on my list. Thank you, sir. You merit a council and, um I like the motion as well. . And given the fact that As a new counselor in this and given the size of this project. It would be really helpful for me to have periodic touch basis through whether it's a year from now or a year and a half to sort of see. Okay, here we are. At this point. This is what the cost is. These are what the options that we have. If we have any, if we don't have any, that's fine, but I think it would be very helpful. . Um, for a new counselors to go through. Great. Thank you. Well, I think good, good discussion on the motion. I think we've had our questions answered. I'd like to move to call the vote to call the vote on it. Um, so I'll do that. Now is anyone against the motion for the information report? ? So that looks unanimous to me. So thank you very much counselor work, , and that leaves us The From this issue. We're done. We're done with that one. .

Moving right along. We have The city of growth, housing pledge by wealth for wealth, and we're going to start off with some presentations. . And then we have three delegations to the matter and a little bit of correspondence as well. That was attached. . And so at this time Looks like our deputy CEO homes is at the mix so I will turn it over to you. . Thank you, Mr Mayor. It's closer. There we go. Good evening, Miss America, three members of council. We are back this evening with another presentation on changes from the province that have come about since you were elected. . We were here in November with a high level overview of Bill one. Oh, nine and build 23, as well as 21 pieces of legislation that came out on October. The 25th 2022 Today We're presenting our housing budge following a request from the Minister of municipal Affairs as attached to the report in your council package. . We have been assigned 18,000 units by 2031. In her presentation will share what we are already doing

and what we can do as a municipality and we will talk about the commitments we need from our community partners and the province to achieve that target. . 2031 municipal housing targets Bulletin asked the city of wealth to demonstrate its commitment to accelerating the housing supply by developing a municipal housing pledge and taking the necessary steps to facilitate the construction of 18,000 units by 2031. . The 2031 housing, municipal housing targets. Bulletin is not a legislative change. . Municipalities are being asked to build additional housing beyond the legislative levels found in a place to grow and other approved official plans to meet the provincial goal of building 1.5 million homes. . As the municipality does not actually build new housing units. . Achieving this additional housing will be a challenge. . We've been diligently planning for intensification, streamlining development approvals, reducing barriers to achieving development through secondary plants. These include the downtown secondary plan, the G I

D secondary plan and, most recently, the Claremont Secondary Plan, all of which had the city of Guelph, taking the lead and planning for future intensification and growth. . Our master plans, from transportation to water supply to waste demonstrate our commitment to growth and where to grow. . We have a plan for wealth. In the long term population and housing growth analysis completed as part of official Plan Amendment 80 The city of Guelph will require approximately 33,600 new census households between 2016 and 2051. . The approval of these numbers are still with the province. . This new 18,000 target to 2031 will be almost double our housing starts. . There are increased concerns from major developers with housing projects across the province. . That have been canceled or delayed due to rising construction costs, interest rates and labor shortages. Municipalities are expected to be ready to provide infrastructure needed to build a complete community. . However, it is unclear how this will be funded when Ontario municipalities are already facing an existing infrastructure deficit. .

This issue will be compounded. Given that Bill 23 reduces the amount of development charges municipalities can collect to fund growth. . Growth related infrastructure. This graph shows the number of annual building permits for residential units and wealth. This includes single detached, semi detached townhouse, apartment and secondary units, such as basement apartments. The highest number of permits ever issued was almost 1500 in 2004. . The 20 year average is just over. 20 year annual averages just over 1000 units, so a target of 18,000 units by 2031 or 2000 units per year, as identified by the province will be difficult to achieve, and it will take the city. . And all of us, including the province and home builders to get us there. . Would require new infrastructure at a more rapid pace. For example, water and wastewater servicing is needed before the development can begin. . Existing master plans. The municipal Comprehensive Review were all based on previous growth targets prescribed by the province,

which may necessitate revising which may necessitate revising. . To accelerate our capital program. We would have to rebuild our capital budget to support new ability, double the pace of growth over the next eight years. . Capacity, our existing issues. Hiring and retaining staff to execute a larger capital program could be an issue. . And there are also constraints in the external marketplaces. Obtaining consultants and contractors to do this work is also a challenge. . Cash flow and funding is another concern. We have depth capacity limits prescribed by the province as well as city policy. . We have less revenue to support growth related capital infrastructure at the same time that we need more infrastructure. You will see in the pledge that we are asking the province for assistance. . Bill 23 has significant financial impacts. Accelerated growth will require accelerated infrastructure. This will mean new water pipes, sewers and roads that are faster place them faster pace than planned. . New development charge rates would be phased in over five years and his his estimated that this could reduce revenues by approximately 10% over five year period. .

New exemptions would provide a potential loss of up to 10 to 15% of D. . C funding. . Parkland. Dedication would be reduced by over 50%. Community benefits charge. Revenue would also be reduced. In addition, there will be operating impacts related to increased growth volumes, such as increased staffing to support a near doubling of the population growth. . This is a financial reality for the city. So we included specific request in the pledge for the province to make us whole on these items to accelerate the number of units that would have permits available. . So what can we do as a city to support this pledge? ? The city has been reviewing its capital projects and has a capital resourcing strategy that committed human resources to deliver capital projects. . We are currently reviewing and updating the city's 10 year capital forecast to incorporate recently completed master plants and determine any adjustments in the capital project Prioritization to support the acceleration of housing. . We are investing in infrastructure renewal in the downtown core to support the realization of the downtown secondary plan. .

With that comes increasing increased housing capacity. We will continue to invest and build infrastructure to support all modes of transportation consistent with the goals of the cities. . Transportation Master plan with the assistance of our federal and provincial partners, and we have just finished. We've just completed your one of a three year plan to streamline development approvals process and we are working with internal departments to be more efficient in our comments. . In order to mitigate some of the financial impacts. Here are some of the things we can do. Complete growth related revenue bylaw reviews, including a comprehensive development charge study. . Parkland Dedication fee review. Water, wastewater and stormwater Utility Revenue Model review and the development application fee review to maximize the city's revenues to fund as much as the infrastructure required for growth. . Understanding that full cost recovery recovery is not always It's not always possible. Establish a process for a front end in agreement with developers for the pre payment of development charges or front ending project. . Project funding for roads, water and wastewater services to

minimize debt requirements for the city. . So we can share in the financial risk of servicing. These sites are anticipated development and help development developers move quicker if they choose to. . Advocate for upfront funding from upper levels of government to finance infrastructure required to serve as Greenland and intensification developments again. . We can share in the financial risk of servicing sites for anticipated development and to reduce the capital cost of growth on both the property taxpayers and new Homebuyers in 12. . And of course, advocate for the ongoing funding to support the Associated growth required for transit. . And the pledge. You'll see items that we are asking the province to help us with two We have reviewed this pledge with our community homebuilders and there's a lot of common ground in our requests of the province. So we both have what we need to build the required housing units in our community. I'm hoping that the upcoming delegation from our home builders will demonstrate what we all need Provincial support to help us get there. . In July Council approved or Municipal comprehensive Review, which adds strategic growth areas, increased densities, increased heights and designates land use that will accommodate the forecasted population.

. We need the province to approve that plan. The minister had 100 and 20 days to approve it. However, we've received notice that he was suspending the timeline. We have not heard when we receive comments on those plans. . We have asked the minister to exempt appeals of secondary plans. This was very briefly proposed in the legislation but was removed before Bill 23 was approved. . Using Claremont B as an example. We had 54 consult consultations on the secondary plan, which was approved by council for 16,500 units. . But it has been appealed, and therefore the infrastructure planning and the building of those units has been delayed. . We are asking the province to provide a long term funding strategy for the infrastructure that we need to support this growth. . And we were asking the province to make us whole in Parkland as we shared with council in November. The reductions enacted through Bill 23 lead large gaps in our Parkland connections, and we know that Parkland is vital to complete and healthy communities. . You're asking the problems to reinitiate bonus Ng where we can see additional height for community benefits such as riverfront land or affordable housing, and it gives both the

city and developers flexibility. We are asking for the province to look internally at their own agencies. We are working our way through a lean development review process to remove applications through the process quicker. . And we need quicker approvals from the ministries as well. . For example, it would be helpful for the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks to expedite any existing and forthcoming water supply environmental assessments to meet the provinces growth objectives. . The city has maximum approval times and we would hope that our provincial partners would meet those timelines as well. . This level of development to occur. We need to expedite water and wastewater approvals because we need the province to support and fund these essential services. . To facilitate growth. You will often hear us undertaken Invite. You will often hear of us undertaken environmental assessments and we need the province to expedite those and reduce the backlog so we can provide services quicker the supplies to ES for both city and private developers. . We are asking for clear, concise guidance regarding indigenous engagement and to fund capacity requirements for that engagement. While we appreciate the value and contributions that we have received from our current engagement activities, there are different

requirements for different projects, and so we are asking for a clear framework and financial support. . With an accelerated level of growth that was more than anticipated plan and work that we've done we've done over the past three years, and we need the province to step in and fund are essential services like healthcare workers, , paramedics, , public health and social services. . Need the province to increase funding for post secondary education and training and wealth, especially in skilled trades for professional services and through apprenticeships. . And we will need the province to work with our postsecondary education institutions to provide additional investment in housing. . We need the province to drastically increase the funding for affordable and supportive housing to address the critical this critical need in our community. The 18,000 units cannot all be at market rate. . And again. This is not just the city responsibility. . We need everyone. . The province developers, homebuilders, postsecondary institutions and agencies to join the city of 12 to work together to be accountable and to make it possible to provide

Required housing supply. And with that, Mr Mayor, I will turn it over to see a of Stewart for some final thoughts. . Thank you very much. Decio Homes and mirror and council members. We presented a lot of information tonight. . And as we react to this provincial driven legislative changes, we can't help but give you all this information tonight, and unfortunately it comes in a very experienced manner since your election to this evening to their work darker our time together and workshop in November two this evening, But again, you know this pledge. It always feels a little one sided. You're hearing we've got deadlines to meet and you heard what Decio homes. . Said about the requirement that we have in with the province that has to be part of this partnership. A pledge only works if all the partners pledge together to hold each other accountable, and also hold themselves accountable. And so we've heard you've heard about the financial implications and arrest associated with these new housing targets. . 18,000 homes by 2031. . And it's double what we've already are struggling to materialize the permits and the CEO Holmes gave you a great example of that over time. .

And as municipality adapted and responded to legislative and regulatory changes by all levels of government has always been expected of us. . However, this recent changes recent changes and speed at which were required to respond as tested teams across the organization and they leaders inside. Those teams are sitting with us this evening. Yes, there's many people in the organization out of participated in. That's very detailed report you have tonight and the city agrees that additional housing supply is warranted, and we are doing some great things to make an impact. . Including our proven commitment to affordable housing, such as the three Supportive Housing Projects Council supported in 2021. . So again. There's a bit of a history here as we walk through some of this because I don't want us to lose sight of We've got this directive, but we've done some wonderful work here locally and that shouldn't be lost on all of this and and saying it out loud, helps us remind herself that that's maybe messaging also back to the provinces. Lots of great municipalities across this province to one of the work qualifies, surely one of them. . In our housing supply has been a priority for several years. We've just completed the municipal comprehensive Review the CR through 2020 2051 ad and Of course, more density and height within our boundaries. We have reviewed our water, wastewater, transit,

transportation and employment lands, master plans and we propose three units, as of right in our upcoming as zoning bylaws all before Bill 23, So we gotta keep coming back to do we really need to be tweeted like a child and in terms of a reference with him with the province and of course, the feds And we're not going to open confederation and have those discussions. But, boy Oh, boy, we've been doing lots of lots of really good work. . And also with the help of streamlining the development fund. So congratulations Province. There is some good things in here that we actually want to say thank you for that funds have helped us and move forward and we are making some great headway into improving our development and approval process and we'll be preparing for a future already goal for years and we have walk. Continue with the same spirit with your support. . And so We support the provinces goal of increasing housing supply across Ontario. However, the pace at which we are mandated to comply with zero financial support is unreasonable. . There's no more simpler than that. No more complicated than that. . It's just unreasonable. . I get waving the DCs, but we have got to be made whole and that has to be part Everything that's in this pledge as well what we asked

the province to do. . And we do not have the financial or human resources and I'm repeating a little bit of what the CEO homes is sad because I just need it needs to be amplified. We do not have the financial or human resources to meet these targets, thus are requested a province to help us get there and again you are being forced to sign a pledge is a council. . They need to. We can't force them to sign a pledge. But part of it is here is what they can do to help us with it as well. So that is so important this evening, and despite all of that we remain committed to doing what is in our control to increase housing for our current residents, and for those who choose golf as their future home. . And you've heard us say repeatedly. Housing alone does not create a community. As the CEO homes mentioned. We need funding for infrastructure, Parkland and our public realm. . The quality Of our open spaces. So important from here, of course, getting more housing That play is important. But but fast forward 10 years and that's when that's when new developments in my opinion turn into neighborhoods. What does it look like? A decade up, maybe half a decade on and it isn't just about volume of homes. That's important, but it's it's about the quality of that neighborhood. . And we need to present the province to help our

post secondary education providers and our trade schools. . So we've got a sub shortage of supply in many places, and this is one of them that the province really could, , uh You know, perhaps four years ago, perhaps would be the time to increase postsecondary and trade school. . Admissions because that would help us in terms of what we need, whether it's building inspectors construction folks, all the folks that have to put these homes together are going to be in high demand. And does that help us with the cost of housing? Does that make it more affordable or or or perhaps less affordable? These are all things that I think need to be quantified from the province. We need the province to also fund hospitals. . And we are a prime example of that at the population rights that we have today. A little on these population rates as well. They have to fund paramedic services, transit, of course, social services, mental health and addiction in social housing in affordable housing, , and we're committed to providing more housing. . And we have put forward a pledge. It clearly demonstrates that along with what we need the province and others to do So before I wrap up, I want to express my thanks for the professionalism and dedication of all City Hall staff. . And when I say City Hall staff in all city staff, really, for their ongoing support advice I

received from the corporate management team in the executive team, my colleagues to my left. I'm bringing this forward tonight. . And to you, Mayor and Council for your ongoing once again for your ongoing direction and guidance and support, And if I can close with one sentiment in that it's that the pledge can only become a reality if we all work together. . All levels of government have got to coordinate. And the development sector, of course, is going to play a very, , very strong role. . And their voices to be heard, too. They have got to be part of the pledge because there's a lot that's not in their control. The Bank of Canada raises rates It changes who's buying homes or who can afford a home that's not contemplated here at all. But we're going to make investments without a whole bunch of market sector decisions that will come to bear, and it's our public dollars that have to get spent. . But what if that development doesn't go forward? We've got tight decisions to make with those public dollars, , so all voices have to be Heard and prepared to make our role, sustainable and achievable. . And not finger pointing municipalities. But it's not fair to say it's municipalities fault it isn't I'm a little biased, , of course, , but it isn't We all have got a role to play in his

pledge, So I'm trying to keep it to that very positive place for us. So let's provide are pledged to the province and make it clear what we need to make go off an even better place to live. . And so with that, Mr Mayor, we also got another guest. . Um, that's going to join us as well as part of our presentation to you, because we thought it would be good to get a bit of an outside voice as well. You hear us often and sometimes you can get used to us. We're still an important voice in this conversation. But Mr Mayor and council at this time part of this presentation, we have invited Dr Mike Moffitt, and he's going to join us up on the screen to share some broader economic context to understand the challenge facing all of Ontario and the housing market. . So we're giving you some specific golf pieces tonight. But where does that fit within the broader footprint of the province of Ontario? ? So Dr Moffitt is the senior director of policy and innovation at the Smart Prosperity Institute and assistant professor in the business Economics and public Policy Group at Ivey Business School in Western University. . Mike's research at Smart Prosperity Institute focuses on the intersection of regional economic development building, child friendly climate friendly housing and communities and clean innovation in 2017 Mike was

the chief innovation fellow for the Government of Canada advising Deputy Minister is on innovation policy and emerging trends. . He was also previously held the titles the director of policy at Canada, 2020 and the chief economist for Moffett's Center at the University of Toronto. . Michaels worked with politicians and policy makers of all political strikes stripes in several countries to craft more effective public policy. . And from 2013 to 15 Mike served as the economic advisor. . Two liberal leader Justin Trudeau. Mike holds a PhD in management science from the Ivy School of Business and an Emmy in economics from the University of Rochester. So Mike and the Smart Prosperity Institute have been active in the 1.5 million homes, target growth in population, migration and policy to us and trends. So with that, , Mr Mayor if I can invite Dr Moffitt to walk you through a brief presentation as well. . Thank you. Well, thank you for that kind introduction, So we'll just jump right into this and and talk about the housing situation in Ontario. What's going on wealth and what it means for this housing pledge. So next slide, , please. .

So what's going on? You know, why do we need so much housing? All of a sudden, And the answer is because our population is growing and particularly our population of adults is growing. This is Ontario's population is not growing because we're having a baby boom, but rather we're adding a lot of adult to the population. Now. Some of those are People who were born 17 or 18 years ago and are now uh, you know, going off to college or university and moving out of Mom and Dad's house and need a place to live and a lot of others are are newcomers to the province, either through immigration or non permanent residency like international students, So Ontario alone last year added almost 301,000 adults to the population. . So that's gonna get you a need for a whole bunch of houses. Uh, Next next slide, please. . And we have to remember that the federal government has increased immigration targets increased some significantly Ontario over the last decade or so has seen immigrants. The number of

new immigrants go up partly because of increased immigration targets and partly just as Ontario's economy strengthened. . The percentage of Canada's immigrants coming to Ontario has gone out. . It's gone from about 38% to 48%. . So if we extrapolate that in look at the federal immigration targets that that have been announced and project what does that mean for Ontario? That means we're adding about 225,000 people a year just through immigration that doesn't include non permanent residencies, , and it also doesn't include It doesn't include people who are being born. So we are in the midst of a population boom, particularly a boom of adults. Next slide, please, which I should point out is is policy driven by both the federal and provincial government. . So, in our estimation that that 1.5 million net new units in 10 years is a reasonable estimate of need. In fact, if anything, it may be on the low side, given how fast on terrorist population is kind of, uh, is growing, so we know there's a need and we know

you know, basically geographically, where in the province that need is coming from, and it's mostly coming from the G T. . A Um, and then radiating both Southwest and east. Um, , next slide, , please. . I don't think we've really understand. Like, you know, 1.5 million. Okay. Is that big? Not big. Don't think we collectively as a province have wrapped our heads around the size of the challenge. So what I've done here is I've looked at housing completion over any 10 year period, starting from 1955 to 1964. . In and looked quarter by quarter. Go. Okay. . What did we build over 40 quarters. . Ontario has never in any 10 year period in our history built more than 850,000 homes in 10 years ever. . You know, going good. Going back to the days of John A MacDonald. We've never done it. . Next slide, please. So Ontario is never completed 850,000 housing units in any 10 year period. And we haven't even completed 750,000

housing units in any 10 year period since 1973 to 1984. . So basically, today is is actually the 40th anniversary of the final episode of MASH. That's the last time we built 750,000 homes in this province. . So, basically what the province is asking us to do because there's a need to do it is basically do something that we haven't done in four decades. . And then double it. This is going to be a monumental challenge. And as you sort of figure it out from this that a few regulatory tweaks on their own some zoning changes and things like that, all of which are helpful. . That's not going to get you to 1.5. You know, there is a lot more work that needs to be done here. . Next slide, please. Oh, backwards. Yeah, So here's 10 things that that I think we need to be thinking of that other actors in the system can help with this. These together will get us closer to 1.5. They might not get us all the way there, but they'll go as far closer versus already mentioned labor shortages in the skilled trades and, uh, variety of of different areas. . The second thing. I don't think we're paying enough

attention to is the lagging productivity of the building sector and the lack of innovation in the building sector. My dad was a sheet metal worker did heating and cooling and stall a lot of ductwork and in apartments back in the 19 sixties and seventies. . His job really hasn't changed much in 50 years. We build homes the same way we did 50 years ago, but we don't build cars or televisions or anything else that way. So I think there's a real need for the building sector to get more productive and as well that there's a need for more research and development on innovation. . Simply, we can't just do what we've been doing and then double it. It just doesn't scale that way. We're not going to have the people to do it. It's just not realistic. We have to get more productive. We have to get more innovative. Obviously, as mentioned, we need more investment in the non market housing housing sector that you were not going to be able to build 1.5 million homes, and that's not going to satisfy all the needs. There's a large component that of the population. . Simply, he's never going to be able to afford market housing. . Four thing we have to think about is the fact that we need 1.5 million net units. . So you know, having renovations and having this,

uh, you know, tearing down buildings and putting up new ones. Um, you know that if you're you know, tearing down a house and building a larger house, Yeah, that's one completion. But that doesn't really get you any more space unless has is a lot larger, So we need to think, you know, consider the issues around run evictions. The fifth thing is that all of this discussion has been on 1.5 million. . Units. When we've been treating a unit as a unit as a unit, but we know where the shortages are, and the shortages are largely in family sized units. As a province. We've been reasonably good, reasonably decent over last decade of building Ah, studio condos and apartments. We've gotten pretty good at that. And there is a real need for that. I don't want to suggest that we need to stop doing that. . But where the real shortages or We are on the three bedrooms, plus type units of any housing form. . Next slide, please. In one of the ways so on 10.61 of the ways we can get more family housing is five, providing ways of making more seems smaller, seniors friendly

housing. . We need to find creative ways to unlock the family friendly housing supply. We have so again using my parents as an example. . You know they're in their mid seventies. They they live in the same four bedroom suburban home in London, Ontario, that I grew up in and they use like 10% of the house. They would love to be able to downsize. But there's nothing that that meets their needs in the neighborhood. They like If there's ways that we can create more seniors friendly housing in the neighborhood that in the neighborhoods that seniors want to live in We can unlock a lot of that family friendly housing, and that helps with some of those infrastructure needs. You know a lot of those schools in those neighborhoods or undersubscribed because those neighborhoods are full of people like my parents in their late seventies. . Mental late seventies. Obviously, uh, a lot of our population boom is coming from colleges and universities, its international students. We're not building enough residences to to keep up with that, and the province can play a huge role there. . We need to address issues around short term rentals and vacancies, and we've seen a number of municipalities do

that. Obviously, as mentioned in the previous presentation, there's big interest issues around interest rates, but also supply chain issues. I mean, I'm still here, hearing from builders that there are there are issues and getting certain parts. I think we need to, , um Look at, you know, uh, making a supply chains more resilient looking at tariff policy and trade policy, perhaps even looking at on shoring different types of manufacturing, so we don't have to buy our you know, bathtubs from China. We could get them somewhere else. And no, I know we do buy a lot of the North America. But there are a lot of components that We could be making here or could be making North America that we're having to make overseas, which is causing some supply chain issues. And then finally, um, you know, there's a lot of talk in the system about you know, money being used in financial ization and buying up existing units and that that is a problem And I think the solution there is not to try and get rid of the money. But if there if there are ways that we can tweak the tax system To make it more attractive for investors and REITs and pension funds to put shovels in the ground and build

new units instead of buying pre existing ones, you know, let's use that those billions of dollars and trillions of dollars that are sloshing around that are distorting our housing market. Let's change policy to to to use that money for good and use that money to help address some of these issues. . So ensure next slide, please. Sorry. Forgot it wasn't controlling the slide, So I Yeah, I I totally agree with the earlier comment that that this is no this This issue is not the fault of municipalities. And in fact, I wouldn't say it's the fault of anyone actor in the system that the problem is that we have a bunch of different actors in the system who are all responsible for different things, , and there's a lack of coordination. . So we need to have, um, we need to have coordination in the system and we need all the actors in the role to play a system play a role. So that's the federal government, provincial government, municipalities, the building sector and higher education for both training and also again because someone in higher ed We're responsible for a lot of that population growth.

Final slide, please. So what we need in any kind of plan is first of all. We need yearly targets, right that. Yeah. You know, we need to figure out you know, 1.5 over a decade is, uh, is a lot like how can we go step by step by step. . We need yearly data and agreed on upon definitions. You know, I I talked to every group I talked to defines, you know, approved but not built differently. You know, we need to have agreed upon data and rules and and definition, So we're all speaking the same language. We need to understand that housing is a system and that what happens in the rental market affects the ownership market. What happens? Um in and wealth affects Waterloo and vice versa. . We need to align with affordability and environmental goals. You know, we're not going to solve this problem by building a bunch of mansions, and we're not going to solve this problem by paving over the grain belt, and we need to have co development with relevant stakeholders. This should not be. This is a crisis and this should not be adversarial in nature. We need everyone to come together and talk about what their rules are what they can bring to the

table to ensure that there's enough family friendly climb. . But friendly housing for for all on Terrians. So a finish finish there, and I'm happy to answer any questions. . Thank you so much, Mike. We appreciate that. And I did. Uh, I want to open it up at this time for any questions directly to you so that we can respect your evening. So, as I say, the word respect of this respect. Asked that same respect from counselors to to make sure that we move along with our questions, Not allowing preamble in such please Just get right to the questions. So, counselor Alden then Karen, , please. . Thank you very much. Dr. Moffitt. Appreciate you attending tonight. Um, I have one or two questions. Um, And primarily, they're based upon your frame, which I do not disagree with it. All. Everything that you identified that has occurred in the past is clearly obvious. And the 1.5 million net, I think is a reasonable need. The problem is, I'm not certain of the foundations of the success of this. . Um, I'm not seeing and I wonder if you could comment on this. You mentioned the 19 seventies program, One of which I'm I'm very familiar with

and the other one that I bring to mind as a wartime project, both of which relied upon federal and provincial government for land support as well. So my question is not where where is the beef? But where's the land and the other one is Where's the labor? ? Um, Similarly, you said a unit is a unit is a unit. My concern is affordable is not affordable is not affordable. I'm very concerned about the demographics of that for youth seniors for those that have access. It already needs it so on, so there's a lot there if you can unpack it all or even some of it truly appreciate. . Yeah. No, I I I agree. I agree with all of that. I think the federal government plays a far larger role in this Then we we've discussed. Um uh, particularly on the land side, though the wartime housing side my dad grew up in and one of those homes by Wolseley barracks in London. . That absolutely. The CMHC plays should be playing a far larger role here. The federal government should be paying a far larger role and on the labor side, that's you know, if you look at the federal skilled trades, immigration pathway, I think they

brought in 250 people in the last 18 months. It's like it's it's a rounding error. . So, so, Absolutely. And I think this is one of the you know, I would highly advocate or highly suggest that you know, we need to have a discussion where we bring all these stakeholders and tail. I'd love to lodges lock everybody in a room going, okay? You're not getting out until we We sort of agree with what everyone's role is so absolutely there's a land component to it. . The labor. The labor one, I think is probably the largest bottleneck of all of this. Like if I see us not getting to 1.5 million. That's probably the one um the scares me the most partly partly just because we need to ramp up some mush and and partly, frankly, because a lot of the A lot of the skilled trades workers are people in my dad's generation. . So we're going to be having trouble. Ah, just, you know, staying pace, you know, replacing those workers and then to go above and beyond that, But I think there's creative solutions, right? I'd love to see you know, colleges and so on. Hire a lot of those retiring tradespeople as instructors to you know, , so You know, there's there's my dad want to be crawling out around and duct work at 75 years old?

No, probably not. But you know it. Could you put them in front of the White Board or chalkboard and help the train? Yeah, Absolutely. So I think we need to get really creative here. . Yeah, And and thank you. Certainly. I appreciate that the economy. Uh, lots of cynical me suggests that that's not going to help us over the next 10 years, and that's what we're targeting. Right now is 10 years. So your comments about skilled labor? Very important. I had the opportunity of talking to a fellow from the Gulf area who does infrastructure who said point blank to me? We're not going to make it. I did 50% of the work last year that I had done in the years past, primarily because Covid and I couldn't get the Skilled labor. Furthermore, he critiqued interest rates and said You're not going to get people to buy any houses and you're not going to get people to build them because the people are all you have a question control. . Yes, , I do. . Is what worries me is I'm thinking that we're presenting a trickle down approach to the economics of housing where we're trying to get people to move out of larger homes and hoping that people will move into smaller ones, and there might be some benefit. Is there any truth to that? ? Well, I I do. I do think in the In the past. There has been this assumption

that as as people get older that you would have this generational turnover that they would downsize their house. It's not happening at the rate that that many planners had thought. I think it's partly just for that reason that you need For every buyer. There needs to be a seller and that that seller needs somewhere to go and again. I used my my parents as my two person Focus group. They've threatened to move every year for the last 15 years, and I never go anywhere because they can't find anything. So I think if we are going to rely on that turnover of existing units, then we we need to be building units that seniors in particular because that's who we're expecting to turn over. . Um, , our company. . Herbal with and that is going to involve government. Um particularly, I would say, particularly the federal government, Um, that's going to involve the CMHC. . I don't think that's just going to happen. . Organically, though there are you know there are a number of great projects. I know of a few in London, but not at the scale. We need to to get us to 1.5. . Thank you very much. Thank you crying and color.

Yes, Thank you. Mr Mayor must be a fascinating time to be a policy plant policy maker or a planner in the province of Ontario. Um right about now, and a lot of that work requires forecasting crystal balling population projections and I part of your presentation was that population projections and I know that some of our pledges about population projections as well. . Um I the whole boom buster echo of the demographics and Ontario. Um, also, um, assumes that at some point, we're we're gonna stabilize or even decreased population. . Is there a foreseeable time in the next 15 years when, when that population those population numbers will actually, um, achieved that and we will have a decrease in population, Or are you foreseeing in in your policy world that this is just a perpetual increase that is is just going to continue for for decades. . It's entirely dependent on federal policy, federal federal policy

on immigration and international students and the enrollment choices that colleges and universities make so Ah, last year on, Theriot added, If we look at both adults and Children, I would give you the numbers for adult early, but but Ontario added about 300,000 people to our population. Um, the difference in Ontario between birth and death was about 30,000. . Right. So that 30,000. Yeah, that will will hit zero at sometime in the next 10 to 15 years. . But there's the other 270,000, which is which is a policy choice. . So and that's one of the challenges for for someone like me and forecasting that I can reasonably forecast Burson deaths. I can't tell you what the federal immigration target is going to be in 2045. . Or 20, or even 2035. That's where population growth is coming. It's not coming from, uh, you know, it's not coming from that Delta between births and deaths. It's it's It's a policy choice, and I think you know very certain necessary

policy choice. You know, we can. Obviously there's lots of debate to be had about the exact number But you know there, you know, in part, we do need the those, uh, those workers to come in and you know, And I think it's great in general to have you know the sort of social and cultural vibrancy that that new Canadians bring. But yeah, I would. I would suggest that again that The our population boom is not due to, um, is not do diverse and deaths. It is in it. It is almost entirely a policy choice. . Who Has a higher level view all of the different levels of government. I'm hoping that you can help me understand what the value is a municipality, making a pledge to double the number of approvals when there is not the corresponding supports to have more builders that are going to be skilled. Do we have to get into business of actually building? ?

Housing building, social housing building. Senior housing student housing. Um what else would a city like wealth need to do to to to actually get these homes built? ? From your perspective. Yeah, I think it's the challenge of this pledge approach. Basically being asked to pledge something you don't control. Right? So you know you can if the pledge were about Ah, approval times or, uh, you know, , zoning or Land availability. You know what you're ordering growth boundary was, you know sometimes something that that you actually controlled. Then I think that would make more sense. But right now you're being asked to pledge to a target. . That, um, is that a year concert like of interest rates go up to 10%. Nobody's going to build and you could do all the zoning and we can do all the supply chain things we want. So you know, I don't I don't. I don't know if it's the most constructive approach, but I would say that if we are, you know, collectively as a society going to go to this pleasure approach, and I think it's it's more than reasonable to say. Okay, um okay.

If this is you know what we're all going to pledge. . Then what is everybody's role Responsibility in getting us there. And I think it's perfectly reasonable for municipalities to say. Okay, well, if we're you know if this is going to be our goal, here's the seven or 15 or whatever. It is things that we need to see to to to help us approach that number. . Thank you for that. I appreciate your input. And I O Rourke and then Gibson. . Thank you, Maga three through you to Dr Moffitt. Thank you so much for being here tonight. I have many questions, but I will ask you. . Ah, , just the one Okay, I'll go for two. So the notion that the province seems to have and that says some others seem to have is it will get to affordability through supply. But I'm hearing you say that 1.5 million units will maybe meet demand And you think that might actually not even meet demand? If the immigration targets stay where they are. . So there won't be this surplus that will drive down. . The price is right.

So what's the key to drive affordability? But I I think there's a few things that certainly you know, Having 1.5 versus having one would cause prices to grow slower because you don't necessarily need prices to go down. You know, it would be very helpful if we had a period like the the nineties or two thousands, where prices didn't go down all that much. But incomes rose faster than the prices to create affordability. . Ah, the CMHC has estimated to get back to those levels of affordability. We need over two million homes and that would get us there. So there was a fantastic report that they released last year, asking that exact question. . Um, So you know, I I do You know, I would suggest that you know 1.5 million, you know, treating sort of a unit as a unit as a unit and not focusing on affordability. . Is not, you know, it's it's necessary, but or but it's not sufficient, right. We are going to have to build non market housing We are going to have to have. Ah, yeah, um assisted living facilities and a variety of other

things that simply having this as 100% done by the market at market rate is not going to get us there. . Thank you. So through America three to a doctor, Martha. My My next question is, um, impact released a study in October and it showed that single family homes are getting larger and condos are getting smaller over the past 10 years, So it's not a good use of land. Right? So our homes are getting bigger and bigger. People are choosing to be over, , housed. . Um, I'm wondering if you're hearing this in the sector and what the municipality can do to unlock family friendly housing. . So, um, yeah, so there's a few things so that is absolutely happening. I don't dispute what impact says it all. And I think, anecdotally we kind of all all knew that was that was happening. I do think there are things that that can be, uh, done to find ways to build more more density. That's not smaller. You know, a bunch of studio condos, but you know, , has it is still dense, , but

Has some room so looking at Uh, issues around. We'll give you an example Example. Um, you know, right now, if you want to, even if you're allowed to build a triplex, you have to build that on the same sort of floor plate that you build a single family home. And that kind of required that that kind of causes those units in the tri flex to be rather small and not necessarily family friendly. . So, looking at things like that. They're cool. Okay, if we're gonna allow triplex is here. Uh, can we change? You know? Can we change the Love foreplay requirements. Can we change height requirements, things like that to give families a little bit little bit of extra space. A lot of the other things that that can be done. Um, unfortunately, our Adam municipal hands. I think there are things for example, on the that could be done with the building code to allow for more family friendly apartment units. . Um A lot of research out of the United States, Uh, talking about the requirements, Uh, to

have two staircases in all in all apartments, limits the ability of limits the number of larger units that you could put in that that building so finding ways to make apartments fire safe. . But still only have one staircase. But a lot of a lot of that is provincial initiative. There's no obvious policy levers, in my view that that municipalities by themselves are going to get there. And this is again where it needs a collaborative approach that would love to get the builders in the room that developers in the room three levels of government in the room and go, Okay. We really We know we need Ah, three bedroom apartment units, and we know we're not building them. What are the policy levers to get us there? Because you're right that we We've got this kind of bifurcated market where we're getting McMansions and you know 450 square foot studio condos and not a whole lot in between. . Thank you and to Gibson. Thank you for your mayor Guthrie and thank you, Mr profit. That was terrific. I follow you on Twitter. I find your content fascinating. I

really wasn't aware of the real complex issue. I never really took provincial growth all that seriously until I saw one of your tweets That said, we're effectively adding like the city of London to our province every single year, and there's not. There's no sign of slowing down. So the problem statement is, we need to build that. We need to build more homes and and I like the way you've approached it with from all the different angles. . My question is the labor Ah, sector Um and and my my bigger pieces of policy Does policy, not drive interprovincial immigration of labor, and I'll use a couple of examples when they closed the cod fishery in Newfoundland. Guess what? All the carpenters they moved to Alberta. You only have to be in. You only have to be in Newfoundland for a week to realize it. . All the skilled labor were gone 5 14 days in a row and then their home for a weekend and they go again in Ontario. When we had manufacturing fall the floor of manufacturing fallout. Guess where All those skilled laborers went. They went to Alberta as well, Um, the fit contract and the Green Energy Act kind of brought some of that domestic content Labor back to Ontario for a time being than the International markets said you don't happen to said anyway. They made rules that said, you don't have to have that content built locally. And then that kind of fell fell apart in the Green Energy Act, a policy decision like this to build homes, the

signal that it sends across the country. . Is there not the potential 1.5 million homes is a pretty bold statement. Whether we get there or not, , is secondary, , but Does that not have the potential to drive skilled labor, immigration, interprovincial immigration back to Ontario to get these things built? ? Well, so there's a There is a bit of a challenge, and this is going to be a double edged sword. So if it was just Ontario facing this challenge that then then Yes, absolutely. I think the challenge that we're having is is other provinces or Are facing this as well. And we're seeing this real cruel irony that we're actually losing trades people to Alberta because the cost of housing is cheaper there, and it's cheaper to live. Agreed. Yeah, So we've got this cruel irony that we need tradespeople to build the homes with the trades. People don't are moving out of Ontario because they can't find anywhere to live. . The so it's. It's going to be a challenge and one that's not not going to get easier unless we, um you know unless we start building those homes, but I certainly think there is room for Ontario to be a little bit ahead of the curve.

When it comes to credentials recognition from from other provinces. We certainly need to be trying and I know there's something that the minister McNaughton has has talked about before. . I think the big opportune Unity is more international. I think trying to find skilled tradespeople from from other Ah. Other jurisdictions. Um, is our best way out of this. And I I would love to know I've never really figured out. Why are federal skilled trades? Immigration pathway is so undersubscribed. Um, that is one area that beat pushing the federal government and saying, You know, we know we need electrician's Brooke bricklayers and roofers and she metal workers like my dad, Why aren't they coming in through this? Why aren't they coming in through this pathway? ? Yeah. Maybe another question. Then you just extend my interest build trade unions. . Are they? Are they welcoming? Are they opening the doors and saying, Come on in. Let's get more certifications done that they looking to grow their bases or are they are they happy to see the wages continue to go where they're going? Yeah, it's it's a mix. Uh, nonsense. It's a picture you've got. You've got something that sort

of recognize, recognize the need and recognize the challenge and the generational turnover and then others who are little bit more territorial and I don't think that's anything. . Um, unique to Detroit. You see that in health care as well. So I do think that is a is an issue. And absolutely I think at some point again, not in an adversarial way. But those unions need to be at the table. And, you know, we need to have some projections to say. Okay, you know, we know we need another 150% more electrician's over the next 10 years. . You know, what are we going to do the due to get there, But But, yeah, it is a mixed bag. Some some are a little bit more territory. You know, Some see this as like. Well, if we shrink the supply, we can make a lot of money and others are being more reasonable. Fascinating conversation. Thank you very much for your time. . Thank you. . And Councilor Downer. Thank you three. Mr Mayor. Dr. Martin. Thanks for coming tonight. So the aging population the seniors that are, , um Over housed staying in their homes. Guilty. Um,

ma over 65, but but, you know, Yeah, over house. Definitely, Um and and we'll probably move sometime in the next couple of years. But I just sort of see the, um Sort of the problem there and that that we also have that value of What you There's two issues around this. Do you think, though, that I know they're not doing they're not moving out, as at the rate at which they anticipated, , which is which is true. . Um, When I look at my my PR my peers, um but they will be. They will be probably in about 10 years. It's just later in life that they're moving out then they were they would have before. Um and we're seeing more people. . People, , um Moving in with their Children with their parents are living in a basement instead to help them to afford places. But do you think that maybe in 10 to 15 years we could. We could also get a lot of housing, um, on the market because they are they are. They are being sort of forced to move into those smaller units because they can't stay in their homes any longer. And then that

also goes with the whole value system. . Problem of We keep telling people we want you to stay in your home. So this whole thing about seniors staying in their homes there in these four bedroom homes. He's a single seniors and all you should be able to stay in your home. And I wonder if that's you know, Hmm. Understand that it's maybe cheaper for my healthcare perspective, but it's from a whole society perspective. It's not, and they're also isolated, so I just sort of wanted to hear your thoughts on that, and they have a second question. . Yeah, Yeah, absolutely I I think in part, it's having something in between where you're not going from four bedrooms. Berman home to, you know, reaching age, Say, 88 then, or 98 going into a long term care facility right that that that there should be, um, there should be more on ramps and off ramps. When it comes comes to the housing market. We really don't have that we and it causes issues on both sides that first time home buyers can't get on the on dry up. . And then again, , folks. . Like my parents. Who want to downside. They still want to have their own place, but they like their neighborhood in London on terror. They like their dog park. They like their stores. They want to, you know, they want to see their friends. They

don't want to move into a high rise apartment downtown. That's not where they want to live, so trying to find ways creative ways to build more gentle density, , and some of that could be Ah! Ah, 80 use and and, you know, you know, finding ways to turn um, existing, um, single detached homes into into duplexes where you know, Grandma and Grandpa live on one side. And Mom and Dad and the kids live on the other. So I do. I do think we have creative solutions. And I do you know, I do think that, um that turnover is is coming. . Ah, I think it's just a matter of when we should recognize that the the sort of the front end of the baby boomer cohort is 75. The back end is about 57, depending on what the issue what you know what definition you use. . So it might. It might be closer to 20 years, uh than than 10. But I agree at some point, um, there will be, um There will be a fair bit of single family homes like just think of again all of those neighborhoods

that were built between about like 1985 and 1990 when we had that huge housing boom. . Um, at at some point, those neighborhoods are going to have a lot of for sale signs on them. . Yeah. . So my second approach is Questions for my thought. Approach. Second, I'm thinking about what your approach was to one of the things was, , um You know, we hear about this coordinated approach between the municipalities, the province, the feds and other stakeholders, and we hear it about it about a lot of issues. You know, around the mental health and addiction issues to take out a coordinated approach, , but municipalities are on the front line. . And we don't really have those willing partners. They're not at the table. Very rarely. Are they at the table, But in this particular climate that we're in and the government just being blunt, Um and I just So for you to come and say, Oh, this needs a coordinated approach, to be honest with you. . That's not very helpful because that's we can't we don't have that. . So it's not happening and no matter how much we beg, plead make pledges. It's not going to

happen this motion. . It's great, but it it's not gonna happen there. I don't even know if they're going to read what our requests are. I don't think they even care. . Um So, uh, I'm going on a rant now. I'm hmm. There a question here. Is there any hope Dr up on? Well, since when time is almost like I would like to leave you with hope. And I think there is and, uh, you know, I I do feel like the conversation has changed that. You know, , I I found like Two or three years ago. Um It was difficult to get people to understand that there was a need for for for more supply. You know, it was thinking, like, okay. Well, if we just tweak short term rental rules and things like that, that would you know that would fix this market, I think and and those are still worthwhile policies, but that alone that's not going to fix it. So I feel like in any challenge. The first step is admitting you have a problem and we've we've now done that. So I do feel like we're making progress. . On that. Um and I do I do at

some point agree that I do agree that simply saying Okay, everybody needs to work together is not the most constructive piece of advice. . So what I would suggest is wherever possible, have more tangible asks, and that could again be around. . The skilled trades, pathway and the immigration program. It could just be things like, Hey, why don't we make our immigration targets five years in advance instead of 18 months in advance, so we can actually plan for what's going on? Um, you know, , having constructive things like, , um Ah, you know, on, uh, student enrollments kind of the same thing I heard from one municipality who I will not name from one of their planners. They got a call from one of the higher ed places saying, Oh, by the way, we're letting in another 1000 students and you know, that was like, two months before they showed up, You know, hope you have enough housing and transit. . So, you know, having things like saying, OK, you know, could you give us a five year plan of your enrolment? We know things are gonna change. But, you know, give us a little bit of heads up. I think if you can make constructive asks, Um then you're

probably going to have more success in a grime. I I do agree that just simply saying Okay, everybody needs to work together. . Is not it might not lead to the best results. . Great. Thank you for Your hope. I appreciate that, Uh, and counselor choose a and then buildings, , please. . Through you, Mr Mayor, Christoph. Dr Moffat. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation like as an idealist myself. I like to think that Oh, maybe we can all work together. Uh, but obviously there are a lot of gaps and policy and a lot of challenges that we have to be able to confront. And I appreciate the discussion on just the root causes that inner governmentally that we have to address. . I just want to just shed some weight as well. My dad, he came to Canada from Malaysia, You know, as a skilled worker back in the eighties and all him and a lot of his colleagues are able to find employment and out and be successful homebuilders that we're able to contribute to increasing the market back in the day. .

So I think it's an It's great that you're trying to highlight that there is a federal responsibility as well. An onus to bring in new workers to be able to accommodate for you know our economic situation with housing, and I just have a consortium of thoughts. Um, they're they're not quite coherent, necessarily. But I just want to ask you just in your professional insight. . How are we able to Encourage the missing middle being built. You know, your We talked about three bedrooms, family housing, because it seems like the market right now. Just anecdotally is encouraging incentivizing, more mid rises and high rises, which is what, especially here in golf, We have a fear of quite frankly like how do we incentivize? ? That missing middle being built while also ensuring that you know, homebuilders are evolving and and in their innovation and also trying to keep up with the national building code and relative to B. C, where they have the step code program and where it's like identified across. You know the association that this is a valuable policy tool. . Like how do we here in Ontario be able to

push for incentives like that, without having to scare away perspective developers because of potential costs. . Thank you. Yeah, So there's a lot there. Um, and again, I think from the municipal side um you know, again because you're kind of lacking in levers. I think most of what you can do you know, directly again is is looking at issues like like like zoning like frontage rules like like height. . Researchers and those in those sorts of things. And then after that, it's just it's just advocacy. Unfortunately, because again most of the most of the levers or either with the federal or provincial governments, and again, that's that that's that's building code. That's that's tax incentives. . Um, , that's Things like that, like again back in the sixties and seventies, we were able to build a lot of more of those, uh, type units and type apartments, in part because of tax policy and the treatment of buildings. The accelerated capital cost allowance on buildings and those sorts of things, But unfortunately

those are levers that, uh, um municipal governments have a lot of that is just just advocacy of Going to the federal government and going okay. Yeah. You know, we're going to do our part, but here's our concerns. We need you to tweak policy to make sure that we're actually getting some some three bedroom units and we're not just going going going tall and sprawl, which is you know the then the development pattern in Ontario for some time now. . And just just one more question Just because you're peeking like curiosity quite a bit, And I really appreciate this at council apologize staff for the timing, timing of things. But how do we reconcile the geographical challenges that we have here in Ontario? Just given the nature of our landscape in southern bacteria we lived in. We live in a pre the disperse the land based where, you know, it's really hard for the average person to really told difference between a wetland compared to prime agricultural farmland. . And farmland. That's just in the holding pattern for decades. Compared to out west where you have the mountains, you have major flood playing with the Fraser River in the lower mainland and the Pacific Ocean That's actually really constricting growth. .

Ah and forcing us to be more creative with our options. Um, we have the luxury of a lot of space right like that's really what it comes down to. And so how do we encourage? Uh, more holistic, multidisciplinary culture of development? That is Um That is sustainable, right? Lack of better words. Uh, that ensures that we keep up with building standards and also allow for us all as Canadians and golf fights to still realize the dream of the missing middle, , right? ? Oh, yeah, That's a great point and actually do think the journal Publix onboard. I've been kind of heartened to see the push backs on the changes to the green Belt, for instance, that I do think on Terrians value value. The greenbelt value, Wetlands and other is not in the green belt, , you know, , recognize. . Ah! Um, the need for farmland. So I I think they're they're They're in terms of not building in those areas. I think where we lose them is is, you know more? How to How do

we? How do we build that density? So I'm comfortable there, But, you know, I do. . I do think that, , um There are you know, as far as this sort of land use goes, you know, the population projections do kind of show and the movement do kind of show that there is a sort of an out migration from the G to two communities like wealth and my hometown of London. So that creates we are. You know we're not going to have the same development pattern we had for the last 40 years where everything kind of moved towards Toronto. . The force with just population growth and work from home is moving in the other direction, so I think there's a real need to build. . Transit links between communities and allow people to move from from one place to another to another. So I think there's a big transit component that we haven't haven't really investigated here. . And a counselor. Buildings, please. So through you, Mr Mayor to Dr Moffitt. Um, I just want to just first Thank Councilor Downer for saying like what It really is like, Um And And the problem that I have with our pledge.

Now you have said constructive ass We're labeling in in our pledge as requests or whether you say request concerns constructive Ask, however, it has no teeth and just like councilor, Downer said. You know, the problem is probably won't even read it. . So doesn't. I'm just asking you does it not make more sense with our pledge that we have the bullet points in there that it is conditional on our pledges subject to to give it more teeth, So I just wanted to ask you that Well, I I'm more, uh, probably the wrong person to ask for that. You know, I'm not. I'm not a government relations expert, but I can certainly you know what it will say is that the province and federal and federal government and the higher education sector like I I do. . They need to be doing more and I hate for this discussion to just be, , you know. . Different or the province dictating thanks to municipalities. I don't think that's a helpful approach, and I think we need to have something more collaborative, and I

think there's a role for municipalities to say We hear you as far as goals scope, but here's the things that are missing that we really need to to make this happen. . Right, And also I just wanted to ask you there was an article CBC article, um a few months ago, and it was and it says for government was warned it has limited options to enforce municipal housing targets. . And at the bottom of it, it has the minister, Clark said that there won't be any penalties for communities. . Sorry. You hearing the same thing. There are no penalties if we can't. If we can't hit these targets or pledge to these targets, there won't be any penalties. . Um, that's my understanding of the situation. As of now, Um, though, the province has said that they're going to be putting out a new housing bill every year. So you know I can't. I can't forecast what they'll whether be doing in the future. . Okay? Thanks. Okay. I'm looking around the room. And so it doesn't seem like there's any more questions

except from me. So you get one for me at first of all, Thank you very much for being here. I appreciate it. I too am a Twitter fan of yours, , Dr Moffitt. . So, um, I just want to talk to you about supply and what is often being heard in the community and elsewhere outside of even outside of golf that I read is a development opportunity comes forward to increase supply. That may not be, uh, at all in the realm of what We all need and recognize is deeply affordable or the social housing or non profit housing. . Park those to the side for a second because I fully recognize and acknowledge that we need that. But instead, a development comes forward that is going to be market. . You know the missing middle as as you would call it, whether it be a high rise or whether it be a subdivision. It is market driven houses. . And often, the rebuttal is well, Where's the affordable housing? ? And that's where I think if you correct me if I'm wrong, But that's where the advocacy piece would

come in, because there's upper levels of government really need to be helping with that. . But can you explain to us how And correct me if I'm wrong, But can you explain to us how even increasing the supply of the market Rent or the market ownership is going to help. Yeah, Absolutely. Because housing is is a system you know, And what's what happens on one side of the bathtub of affects the water and the other side. So, uh, young couples with those who are lucky enough to be able to afford housing need somewhere to go so we can either build housing for them, and that could be of any form. . Or what happens is, if we don't they buy up existing properties. So the lack of market rate housing is driving a lot of renovations. You're seeing families move in and that they get priced out of the G T A. They drive until they qualify. They end up in a community like a wealth of Woodstock of London. . And they buy up property that used to be a

rental property and those relatively affordable rental property and the existing the existing residents are tenants or displaced. So building market rate. Housing is a very good mechanism for The preventing, uh, displacement from gentrification. So basically that we need you know everybody needs somewhere to live. . Ah, for some of the population. They're not going to have the income required to get more great housing. . We absolutely need to do. . You know, build sub market rate housing, but there is a lot of population that that has the money. . They just need somewhere to live and they're going to find it. And it's you know, essentially a game of musical chairs, right if we have if we have eight homes, and we have 10 families, the eight richest families are going to be able to get those homes leaving the other two out out, you know, out in the cold, so it absolutely does play different. So, yes, we need affordable housing, But that doesn't mean we

don't need Market rate housing because we absolutely do. Thank you. And I am so sorry. I said one question and guess what? You're going to get a second. . It's only based on some of the levers you mentioned that municipalities could have. So I happened to look at. You know some news in the last couple of days of another municipality that will remain unnamed where their council turned down, You know, affordable housing because of you know, nine or 10 parking spaces. . Uh, , can you Can you please give us your thoughts on where there is municipal levers that could be pulled to help with the housing crisis that you're seeing municipal councils not pull. . Yeah, absolutely. And I can know that project pretty well. So that one, you know that that one was basically delayed because of parking minimum requirements Had there's been waived than there are or just abolished entirely. Um, then there would be no reason to delay Delay that project and I will point out that that

project, which has I think 31 affordable units is right on an LRT line. So these are affordable units for for relatively low income residents on an LRT line that was basically delayed, um, well delayed for a period of time. . Because of a lack of parking for residents who are unlikely to have cars. So looking at things like that. Like if we're really wanting to have affordable units that building them on transit lines and then saying, Okay, well, they're you know, they're lower income residents. This is on a transit line. You know, maybe we don't need to have as many parking spots so looking at things like that, , I think can be a big help. . Great. Thank you so much. Well, look, I don't see any other questions, and you're not going to get a third out of me. So you've been with us for quite a while. But I think as counselor to said, and others were nodding in agreement. What a fantastic conversation. Um, in a way, just speaking for myself, kind of took some of the politics out of this. . It's just a great information. . You know, presentation to have in regards to this

matter. Um and you know, you reiterated a few times. If I could say the problem statement is real. We We need to have more housing. So everyone acknowledges That part is kind of where we go from there, which which is fair, But thank you so much for your presentation and the staff are inviting. You really appreciate it And you have yourself a good rest of the night. . You do? Take care. Thank you. Two staff was. Can I move to delegations now? I just wanted to ask Or was there more from staff? No, I'm going to delegations. Perfect. We have three delegations tonight and two are going to be in person. And then our last one is on video. David Douglas. I saw you come in the room. So thank you for being here. . Come on down. . And Tanya gave artists in the wings. So thank you for coming. . I appreciate it. . And, uh And then, um, Josh Kaufman is going to be on video. But as the other delegations are aware, and thank you for your time. It's up to five minutes. And as soon as you start talking, I will start the clock for you. . Okay, , go ahead. . Yeah. Thank you very much, Mr Mayor and members of

council. . Excuse me. . Ah! About 48. Hours ago, I had a different presentation. . Here it is. In support of the unfortunate term pledge. I'm not going to use this. I'm using this other one. . And they said one. The revised delegation notes as I call it to you, and it goes as follows. . As I say up to 48 hours ago, I was supportive of this. Unfortunately named Pledge Initiative the City Council is considering relating to the provinces of Ontario's Bill 23 related legislation, while my support was accompanied by very serious reservations, reservations I've made before you on previous occasions, and now in the public demand, , I was convinced To respect the significant work accomplished by city staff. I noted the cautious and highly qualified approach taken here and there carefully. . Crafted advice to you. Very guarded, very cautious, Very prudent. But in the last 48 hours, new information has come

to my attention. . It reinforces my previously expressed concern about the ill informed nature of Bill 23. Indeed, it far exceeds even my most negative technical and professional reservations. . Report has been just released. It was prepared for the alliance for a Livable Ontario, you might know of them. . The report was titled Very Long Review of Existing Housing Unit. Capacity, identified in municipal land needs assessments prepared for upper tier and single tier municipalities in the greater Golden Horseshoe area. . The report was prepared by Kevin E. B. Or P P p. L E. As you know, the province of Ontario has a target of 1.5 million housing units to be built by 2021, far exceeding as has already been said all previous growth policy and planning expectations the portions of this target no mandated for the 25 of the 29 municipalities. . That are in the G H. Greater golden horseshoe

amounts to 1.1 million new units. . Wealth allocation. As you know, it's 18,000. This report finds that the existing capacity to be to be found in the built up areas. . In the development growth areas, the approved areas and in the rural areas At the time when the Elonis then land needs assessments were completed exceeds two million houses. . Two million units. I should note that this existing capacity Excuse me, does not include capacity associated with any new lands now added to urban areas through the recently completed conformity, updates to official plans or additional lands removed from the greenbelt to accommodate new housing. . To quote one of the conclusions of this new report. . I quote existing capacity. Excuse me Fighting something for new housing identified within the L. N A s 2.5 million units. . Was more than double the cumulative total of the new

housing targets specifically assigned to the 25 G H municipalities, , including wealth. . An amount of 1.1 million no additional overall housing capacity. . Was required in the G H to meet its share of the 1.5 million housing target. . This report is based on publicly available information from all of the relevant municipalities, , including wealth. . The analysis is transparent and a little more than arithmetic. . It is credible, credible, professional product based on credible data. . One response here for you is to ignore this new and highly important information. . I would assume City Council would never entertain such a course of inaction. . Another response to this in your report is to add it, , perhaps as a fundamental qualifier. . Or even as a structural amendment. To your pledge. But given the gravity of the situation And the staggering breath of implications here.

That's your staff of already referred to I would highly recommend against it. . But given the only appropriate response is to pause. To halt the current initiative to register your formal pledge of obedience. . The reason for this, as I have inferred on previous occasions is because the fundamental premise of Bill 23 is now proven as suspect and perhaps demonstrably erroneous. . If you find it to be such you cannot in all good conscience and with any legal assurance Commit to participating. You have to stop you there. I'm sorry. That's your your five minutes. I'm so sorry, sir. I hate doing that. But I just got to uphold the time limit, but But I'll just see if there's a question for you before before you leave, counselor Collar. You have a question? ? Thank you for your worship to Mr Douglas. Thank you for your presentation. And I'm trying to understand the new information that presenting because we know that we have About a 1% vacancy rate. And when we hear that healthy vacancy rate in the city is about 3%,

, we had, , um Um, professor present right at the doctor Percent right now, And he told us that you know the 1.5 million pledge. We really would be looking at about two point something million additional homes to meet the forecast that growth, which is about 250,000 per year, , So even if there is Vacancy of two million within the greater golden Horseshoe. I don't understand how that helps us with our housing issue that we have wearing wolf. The rent is is quite high. And when the university let's send an extra 1000 students, they can't even find places to live. And they have to commute. So just trying to reconcile those those facts. . I think the discussion this evening. You've heard it is largely on the demand side, the complexity of the demand and the uncertainty. . Serious uncertainty of forecasting the demand for a new types of housing requirements. New needs. It's It's a very complex area, as has been mentioned, and we're not very good at it. We're usually wrong. .

That's the gentle demand side. I'm making reference to the surprise side. . And this report. Raises at least raises very serious questions about the inferred lack of capacity. . And hence what municipalities like 12th must do. The prank. You must walk out on Which is seriously treacherous, financially, legally treacherous, treacherous for the professional ethics of your staff. . And otherwise. Ominous. So it says that Stop. Hold on, recheck this because the fundamental premise Bill 23. About the capacity issue. Is Your claimed as erroneous. Yeah, it doesn't hold as as a follow up, Could it could I ask that you share that report? Uh, with us, That would be helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. . Thank you. And I don't see any other questions.

So thank you very much. Thank you. And next is Tanya gave art Who was coming on down. So welcome and thank you. . And whenever you're ready, um I will start the timer as you start talking. . Go right ahead. . Good evening, Mr Mayor, councilor, staff and fellow citizens. . We're here to talk about the housing pledge that wealth along with 28 other municipalities has been volatile old to create. . We're being told that in order to do our part to solve the housing crisis. . 12 must erect 18,000 housing units by 2031. First I'd like to commend staff for writing this informative report. . I learned a lot of things. . And I learned that Bill 23 is even worse than I thought it was Second I'd like to remind everyone here. That all of the experts have indicated that Bill 23 is not About affordable housing.

Its definition of affordable 80% of market value is laughable. . Third. That's not forget that developers were the only stakeholders that were consulted prior to the passing of Bill 23. . And finally since October 25th of last year. The provincial government has been actively destabilizing municipalities by changing the rules in a seemingly arbitrary fashion. . If I understand correctly. Wealth regarding population mandates. The key dates have changed from 2041 to 2051 now to 2031. . Now, the staff report makes it crystal clear that this mandated housing pledge presents significant financial, social, environmental and planning challenges. . Indeed, voting for this report would be a no brainer. . It's excellent. But today you're being asked to vote on a pledge that does not align with with what is in this report. . Wealth would have to build at a rate that has not been seen in decades. . For many reasons, not least being the changes in

development charges, wealth will have to raise property taxes. Full stop housing is to be built quickly and obviously to established building standards. . Remember the three criteria when we build anything, speed quality and cost. . Since you can only fulfill two of these speed and quality, then you can be sure that it's going to cost a pretty penny. . The province is telling us to do more with less. . Public trust in government is at an all time low. . We often talk of integrity and and accountability. If you sign this pledge Are you acting in an honest manner? Are you taking the responsibility of living up to its conditions? ? Because it is not obvious to me that the province will live up to the many asks many reasonable and Uh, Reasonable and necessary asks that are suggested in this pledge. . At first I was going to say that approving this pledge would be merely a Performative act. .

However, given that it will be available for all the world to see, and given that growth will not be able to fulfill this pledge without provincial money. . This pledge, where it to be approved is a testament to our inability to say no to unrealistic expectations. . I strongly urge you to have the courage to let the province know that this one sided and mandated pledge is not worth the paper It's written on. . CEO Stewart said that you're being forced to sign this pledge. . And I disagree. Otherwise, why are we even here? Thank you. Thank you very much for coming down and let me see if there's a follow council Dollar. Uh, thank you for your worship. Thank you for your presentation. Ms. Gilbert. I one of the things that that that that I'm considering us as we as we are talking about this pledge is that Municipalities that approve it may be able to get received funding from the province. Municipalities that do not approve. It may have a harder time accessing funding in

the coming decade. So with that in mind, I'm thinking the prejudice pledged that has been presented by staff says. We pledge to do a B and C if we get a B and C supports That was for me. Okay, So, so with that in mind, , I mean, , would that Would that Changed your mind. I mean, the way that it is being Proposed. We will commit to doing this if we get the support from the from the province, and I think the risk is that if we do not fall through and do not Sign a pledge of some kind. Then when we go asking the province for funds in the next year or two years, they're going to say, Well, you didn't sign the pledge, so we're going to give Cambridge money. We're going to give kitchen or money. We're going to give London money, and that's one of the considerations that are making so I wanted to get your feedback on that. Okay, So my first question would be, uh, is that the way that the pledges worded because when I read the pledge, it's worded as my understanding of it is Yep, we're going to do this. We suggest the following and we need partnerships and we need help from all these different people. This is

what we need. It's not a if you give us the help, , then we will build. . So that's my unders. First of all, is that correct? I will be asking that of staff. Okay, so that's the first thing And secondly, , if, , if If the government is going to Deal with naughty municipalities that don't sign the pledge by with withholding money. . Oh, my God. Then I mean this would be so obvious It's it. It would be so obvious to I mean, I would hope that the population would revolt. . That's ridiculous. . That's acting like a tyrannical father. Or parent or whatever. Sorry, like I really hope that Okay. I guess what I'm trying to say sorry. . Is that I would hope that Yeah. It wouldn't let that possibility. Sway you from Not from from not making a stand against the government. That's what I'm that's. It's the principle of it, man. That's what I meant. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you very much. . Great. Thank you. And Tony. Just so you know you don't have to say sorry for your opinions. Okay? I know. Alright. Don't

don't ever worry about that. That's exactly why this room exists. . Okay? ? Thank you. . Ah! Josh Kaufman is next. Joining us by video. .

Hello. And thank you for joining us. It's Mayor Guthrie. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, I can. Can you see me? Can you hear me? Okay. We can see and hear you. Fine. And thank you for joining us. And I will start the clock for you as well. When you start you have up to five minutes. You can go right ahead. Thank you very much. . Good evening, your worship, Mayor Guthrie, members of council and municipal staff. . My name is Josh Kaufman and the vice president of development and construction at Starlight Investments and Starlight Developments. Developer in an asset manager of purpose built rental, housing and residential communities across Canada and specifically in wealth. I'm also the first vice president of the Wealth and District and Homebuilders Association. . Known as the G D, H B, A It's my pleasure and honor to be joining you tonight. . Speaking on behalf of Goth P a For those who are not familiar with the association. We are the voice of the residential construction industry for the city of 12th and Wellington County. . We represent the industry of the builders, developers, building trade suppliers and service providers. . In 2021, the homeowners Association calculate that in wealth,

New Hong Kong construction represented 1642 jobs, 112 million in wages and 255 million investments. . The new home building industry is essential to golf's economic strength and prosperity. And, of course, building the homes we need in our community. We absolutely need more housing. . And District Homebuilders Association appreciates the opportunity to meet with city staff and to help form this big wealth, housing pledge by wealth for quote Our association recognizes that this pledge and the work moving forward is needed in order to meet the provincial growth target of 18,000 units by 23 1. . This pledge and submission to the province is an excellent step forward to collaborative action, which is essential if we're going to address the housing crisis. . G d H B. A holy believes in the goal to ensure housing, affordability and choice remain within the city of growth has been done. This will be done so through balanced, market driven housing supply, which includes all forms of housing and verticals and making the best use of land throughout the city. All new housing supply is necessary. And you have heard this tonight from Dr Moffitt. .

I want to stress for this council that what the good work of staff and various engagements, the association can support the majority of items within the pledge. However, there are a few items that we need to ultimately highlight that we cannot support. . And these are The minister's exemption of appeals to declare multi secondary plan which is council approved to allow 16,300 people and 1250 jobs and 77,150 units. . The city's request, the minister exempt appeals of secondary plans and comprehensive zoning bylaws. . And the request that developers and home builders be held jointly accountable to meeting targets that economic market additions may not support from time to time. . We cannot control the uncontrollable. And in this current economic condition, which some regard as the black Swan event is a perfect example of why we cannot agree to this accountability. . It is also vital that the city take the necessary steps to streamline approval processes and that council approved of all viable applications at their disposal that will put shovels in the ground in order to bring on the much needed housing units that said there are items that the

G D h B A suggests be added to the pledge to further streamline processes. . And expedite the building of housing image, which are listed here in Review parking minimums and height maximums for new development, especially in the areas where transit is available and supported and provide policy that embraces alternate forms of transportation and transportation. Demand management legacy planning policy is holding back roads We need to grow up and not necessarily down. . Parking is one of the greatest development inhibitors were demand doesn't justify the parking required by the policy abide by Bill 23 for site plan control matters, including elimination of exterior requirements, design landscaping as an example and avoid adding lengthy new processes prior to full site plan submissions. . Consider the option of an urban boundary expansion as well as redesignation of employment lands where appropriate, and we're housing can be viable. Commit to exploring the use of available tools in the planning act to ensure impactful housing products are accelerated, approved and built. Consider cross servicing agreements with adjacent municipalities based on available capacity within the city. We are in this together with our neighbors. .

Prioritize approvals for intensification of residential projects and related servicing needs and existing neighborhoods. . I think this council for the opportunity to delegate on behalf of the association Thank you. Thank you very much. We appreciate it and it looks like you got several questions for you. So get ready. All start to my left here. Got three. I believe I saw Busuttil Downer. Am I right? ? No. So boosted till and then, uh and then Karen and then councilor alternate gold. . Thank you and through the mayor. Thank you very much for your delegation. Mr. Kaufman. Um, I have a couple of questions. Uh, you identified some things that you would add to the pledge that would in in your view, , further support Development. I have some questions as well, Um, that I You know, I rely on your expertise. I'm not in housing. In the report from the staff. There were some recommendations or some identified things like getting units to market quicker that are already approved. No shovels in the ground and so

on Any thoughts from the association, whether it is, , you know, , a time related kind of Chicken clock that once approvals happened that the development that the development actually takes place or you go right back to, you know, Square number one if you can comment on that one. . Certainly, um, I've said this before in other forums is time is one of the largest determining factors in developing housing. Uh, things need to move quickly in order to put shovels in the ground. I mentioned before that there's certain events that are occurring. . Could it be easy interest rate environment, economic conditions that in some regards, and especially these days has a huge impact on the ability to deliver housing. So I think if from an expediency standpoint, if approvals are received in court, turnaround time frame and again, , things align housing should be built. . Again. As I mentioned, there are certain things like in this current environment. Things are out of our control. Interest rates have tripled in some regard that's made housing and putting shovels in the ground difficult

based on the cost of housing. Uh and and that's been a huge, , huge issue. . Essentially though once permits are received. There is no reason why all efforts aren't being driven towards creating more housing. But again, there are certain events that are out of our control. . I'm not sure if that answers your question. Yeah, I I understand the externalities of interest rates and so on. I guess specifically, I was looking at the 3500 units that are already to be built that are sitting there. Um And I was looking for some kind of innovation. Commitment, I guess. Pledge on the part of the you know, the association That you know we are partners in this. This is a housing commitment. But that's 3500 units that have already been zoned, approved and registered that haven't been built yet. And I'm looking for you've asked, you know, City Council or staff to think about things and on our side. It's a balance sheet. And I guess I'm putting it back on you. What could developers do? Or what would you suggest? ? And yes, I understand about interest rates and so on. But that also plays into our role in

the city. What what can be done there? Well, it's also that in the the concern is Where is that housing supply? Where are those lots? Where are those permits available? It's not always in. I think there needs to be variety. I think there needs to be a plethora of different developers at the table. It's not all been focused in terms of with one group. . And I think that in the day you you have to look at the foursome of applications. We can't limit ourselves to one particular group or a few groups. We don't know the factors that are affecting their ability necessary to bring on supply. But we have to think I would say the word globally or at least municipally in terms of providing options for housing in all areas again, it can't be all concentrated in one or two or three areas. . That may be out of the control and not controlled by certain developers. . Thank you. So what? I'm I'm teasing out of that is that no no sticks. There's you wouldn't support the city developing any kinds of sticks around that, you know, getting shovels into the ground for those already development projects. Compelling, compelling,

I think is the is that I think the word of trying to help to compel development where I think there are tools that the municipality can bring to bear that is going to help to enable it again. As I mentioned there could be certain factors it could Because it could be covenants and many things that could affect someone's ability to go ahead and develop housing. I think we need to look at all options. And I do believe that there is aspects of Bill 23 that helped to enable that housing Thank you. And the next question again. I'm not a developer. But you know, when I read this report, I'll be very honest to me. It feels like a gamble as a new city councilor and that the commitment and the pledges to put a lot of our resources, our staff our financial resources into servicing land and my concern. I guess I'll be very honest is that once land is serviced It is much more attractive to be sold. And so on. So we as as a municipality would be investing in this, you know, servicing and so on. And yet the rewards the housing the pledges, and so on. As as as evidence to this 3500 isn't returning back to us again. When I look at this balance sheet of community interest

in community, Bafta, I'm not seeing it. So if you can comment on that Yeah, I I do believe that through my my deputation. Ah, we are in this together, and I know as a builder myself and I can only speak for myself that when the opportunity presents itself to all permits and enable housing we act on it quickly. Ah, I'm I'm I'm not that familiar with with groups that are sitting on land that are not moving land and again, There's probably some factors that are affecting In that, but ultimately I think with the ability to recognize that we're in this together, and we're looking at different groups and as an association or representing our members that are really the builders of this community. We are all in support of doing anything we can to streamline the process and bring on more housing, , and it starts with timely approvals and permits. . Thank you. Thank you. Karen Hult, Goller Claussen. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. I'm going to ask a really frank question if if, if streamlined approvals

Um, land availability. The infrastructure is built all the things that you're asking for, Um, parking minimums reduced if if if, in an ideal world, the things that you envision happened in the city, and we fulfill our end of the bargain to provide that to the home building community. . Um, what I heard you say is that you're not able to pledge that the units will be built. So I'm just going to come right and asked, do you do you believe that 18,000 units can be built in in the next eight years in this city? ? So let me first step back. I think the question prior was about the 3500 permits that are there and I couldn't speak to the ability to to build on those 3500 units in terms of net new housing. My comment is that obviously our pledges to go ahead and work collaboratively so we can enable more permits and we can name one more housing to occur. . So number one isn't doesn't dismissively mean that I We can't We can't build it. I'm speaking to the Net. . New Do I think that we can go ahead and make a significant dent in our target. . I do could we hit the ultimate target? I think there definitely is a challenge in terms of getting

there. But I think at them the day we have to try to strive Thanks there, I'll follow up with staff, but I believe I believe we have over 6000 housing units on the books and we have a map that I'd be happy to send to you of where those housing units are located, and they are all over the city. They're not isolated to one developer, One site. There are a wide variety of housing types. . Throughout the city, and I believe that that's over 6000. . And old thing, Goller. Thank you very much, Mr Guthrie through you to the delegate. Um, Mr Kaufman. Thank you very much for coming before us. And I do want to thank my two colleagues who spoke previous. You took the one question right out of my mouth. There are certainly many, many units to be developed that have already been approved. . Um First question. Ask you. It's a fairly inflammatory. Uh, point that you made urban boundary expansion. What do you mean by that in relationship to golf. . Well. I think there is a finite amount of

land that sits within wealth, and if there is the ability to extend the boundary to incorporate more land that could be available for development, it will increase the amount of available supply to allow for more housing. . To occur. So are you suggesting that we should expand into 12th Aromasin, perhaps whistling and elsewhere. I think we should be considering expansions into areas that extend the urban boundary. . Thank you. Um, Next question. Um, affordable housing. I was talking to actually believe one of your members for some time about this who was very pointed with me who said affordable housing will not be provincial or federal, , uh, , left hand. . Being provided free, he said. It's it's not affordable otherwise apart. . I'm sorry. I'm having a tough time hearing the question. . It's coming through a staticky. The Hmm. Affordable housing be built in growth milk. It's probably my my my computer. Affordable housing will not be built unless the provincial or the federal

government comes forward and provides free land otherwise. . No, not affordable. Councilor all Could you please try one more time by turning your camera off. . Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes, sir. Yes, perfect. The question then is that a developer was talking to me and was quite candid, He said. Affordable housing is not our business. We will not be building affordable housing unless to provincial or the federal government provides the land. Could you comment on that? I was rather taken aback by it. . Ah, I don't know who this individual was in terms and what their experiences with affordable housing. Ah, I don't believe that is the case that land and needs to be free to develop affordable housing. Affordable housing mean looking at the different programs that are out there through Federally through cmhc and other programs and initiatives, I would say

Ms plea. I think affordable housing can be developed. So to be quite blunt. I've had experience with affordable housing as well. And I think it it Although there is An impact to traditional returns. Let's say I do think that there are tools and there are opportunities that can enable affordable housing, and there's some great examples of that throughout this country. . Uh, thank you. The next question is fairly simple, but does follow this one with regards to that, in terms of advertising for purchase affordable housing. What is considered to be the base purchase price and the years amortization that would be necessary for a person to purchase affordable housing. . Ah, counselor. All Sorry, do you? Do you really expect a delegate to know that mathematically equation part individual? You really do you? Do you have the answer, counselor? All do you have the answers? Told that currently with the okay, So you have center

$650,000. . I like the answer. Yeah. Three told by a builder. Okay, So excuse me, too, Mr Kaufman. . Councilor All what? What were you? What are you trying to get at in your question? If you could please rephrase it and try to keep it as a question. That'd be great. Could you confirm or refute what this builder told me that the level for affordable purchase mobile housing is, is it approximately $650,000? ? I can. I can't confirm nor refute, but I'm happy to look into it and come back with some data. . Thank you very much. America, Guthrie, no disparagement to the delegate. I appreciate him coming forward. I thought that the Homebuilders Association would be aware of what the current costs were and what would be defined as affordable for purchase housing. . Okay, Thank you. Councilor color than costing Thank you. And to your worship. Thank you

for your patients. Mr Kaufman. I appreciate it. Um, one of the things that I'm wondering about is how do we actually get the capacity to build these homes? You know, we saw from staff that on average we've approved about 1000 17 units. . Now we're being asked to approve 2250 per year over the next eight years. . Effectively doubling and doubling the build rate if those are going to be built, But do we have the trades that we have? You know? How does the homebuilders Association? Um actually managed to double the number of of of laborers? Um, and that skilled trades, folks, Because what I'm seeing here in city projects? ? On your crowed. There are times where the construction crew could not get the bodies on the ground to keep the project on time, and I'm seeing that time and again when we go out to bid and tender on municipal projects, we are not able to get the skilled labor to do the work on a timely basis. So how do we get around that Because I feel Are we going through an exercise where we're going to have all of these approvals, But then they're not going to be built because the capacity isn't there. . And you know what does that ramp up? Period

look like? And what is the Home Builders Association doing to get us there to building? You know 2300 units per year. . It's It's a great question. So number one on behalf of the association. We absolutely support education. We support trade development. We absolutely want to build more in wealth. Um if and I'll just cover as I'm kind of thinking it through. Ah, I could easily say you know if you permit it. . They will come which I and I do believe that when the doors are open for wealth and in the signs are that we are open for development and we are enabling development. They will be interest and further interest for construction. I do see that I know I work. I have the opportunity to work across the country. . And in doing so, I know that trade to do extend themselves. I don't think that trades are skipping town decided to go ahead and go to Calgary or going to Alberta. But if there aren't jobs and there aren't homes being built, they have no choice but to go ahead and go elsewhere. They're skilled professionals. They're looking for jobs. They want to stay in wealth. They want to stay in

the region and the only way they can do that is if obviously if If the construction is enabled, and it starts with permanent Okay. Okay, So So what I hear is that if we increase the number of building projects, then we will draw the trades from from the region and from other provinces. Is that absolutely I'm sorry. Absolutely. I have seen it before and insisting that are coming from other problems. And I think this is one way to avoid them. Leaving the province, I think was more of the comments budget in terms of going ahead and extending the trades. I've seen firsthand several traits whether they're in the greater Toronto area Greater hammer. . It's an area that have extended to work in this municipality when the opportunity presents itself. . Yeah, Of course. We want to obviously grow as much as we can local. But if we don't have the skill traits here, we absolutely looking to leverage from other municipalities. . Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that second question. . I appreciate all the that the requests and suggestions that were made were these provided to city staff in advance so that they could you know, in the last week or two. We know we've known that this deadline was coming so that they could incorporate them,

particularly in those things that you object to. I'm just trying to understand if you gave it to city staff. . 23 weeks ago, and they chose not to put it in the plan. Or if this is the first thing that they're hearing about your concerns and your suggestions. . Thank you for your question. Um, I believe a letter. . Was addressed to your worship and council on the 24th of February. Um uh, that said there was collaboration with respect to the pledge. Um and and that said there were comments that we provided in advance. But upon review of the draft that was received, we provided our comments in this letter in the 24th. . Perfect. Thank you very much for that that information and lastly are you seeing any of the other municipalities that Starlight investments? Uh, operates in that are doing anything. Anything interesting that we should pay attention to in terms of of doing this ramp up? I am aware that your present in other municipalities, not just well, is there any feedback that you're seeing as How other city councils are approaching this pledge that we

should consider Absolutely so I would say first of there's there are obviously some unique approaches that are specific to wealth and specific to certain properties, which obviously I've highlighted in my submission. But in terms of things that can be done to got done to go ahead and able development. I have seen other municipalities in support of it. So I don't think that any of the suggestions that I have advanced either in our submission on the 24th or in my delegation tonight. . Ah! That is, is that far reaching from what's been recommended and suggested and supported by other municipalities. . Thank you very much for your presentation. I appreciate it. . Thank you Worship Clawson and Keaton. . Remember that? Um, I think you through you, Mr Marriage, Mr Kaufman Appreciate you delegation and definitely has spurred some great question. Something that you touched on in your in your delegation tonight that I think is worth mentioning is interest rates that are set

by the federal government's Bank of Canada. . These are totally out of our control as a municipality, But I think has a serious impact on both building homes in the ability for people to purchase homes, and I was hoping you could speak a little bit more to this. . Absolutely thank you for the question. Um, so let's first talk about it on the construction sites so most, uh home builders and developers when they built built whether it's a single family home duplex triplex, uh, middle housing high rise. There's typically construction debt. . That's involved in building. Ah, debt is a function of the bank of Thank You. Canada rate in terms of and it fluctuates. Uh, when interest rates are high debt becomes costly, and so the higher the debt, the more costs and as a result can impact the ability to construct. . Whether it's an issue of overall returns as a running business to go ahead and be able to develop the home or it means just in terms of generally in

terms of for the ultimate sale that home in terms of what can be derived in terms of return for that, so it does play into it, as does other cost factors. Um, there are hard costs. There are municipal fees and there are soft costs and there are interest in debt. . Which are significant light owns that all go in to the cast of the home. . So again, just to reiterate its when interest rates are higher, Uh, debt is higher, and it affects the construct ability of a home on the purchaser's side. Absolutely. There are impacts when debt is higher. So again follows the same interest rate curve and as a result, and especially additional stress testing, when when you have to be approved at a higher debt, uh, rate or interest rate. . Sorry, not death rate at a higher interest rate. There is an impact in terms of what someone can afford, , and it does affect the affordability. . Appreciate that. And maybe as a follow up question, just wondering if you've seen any other municipalities as

part of their pledges, asking the federal government to stabilize the the interest rates because I can imagine that you know if people aren't buying, it's harder to build, and then it's harder to build because debt is high. So I feel like we're kind of in this pattern right now where we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop where interest rates keep climbing, And I mean, I think, you know, , kind of Speak from a young homeowner perspective here like we're just waiting for, like the other shoe to drop on our mortgage right like is our payment going to double when we When it comes up and and you know, , that's just me. . I have a lot of friends and you know, community members who you know, are in similar positions where they can't even consider getting into the market. So you know we're talking about this this housing supply crisis. But what about what about the ability to even enter the market? And is that something that we also need to be building into our pledge? ? Yeah, it's it's a It's an interesting question, so I don't claim to be an economist number one. Uh but I I am an experienced developer and home builder. Um, I do know that from I'm reading the same way we all are, and we're washing kind of what's happening to inflation and we're

hoping obviously that it isn't it is stabilizing. And I think with that the hope and prayer is that obviously, , interest rates are going to settle accordingly. . Ah, to what extent in terms of how they stabilize or decrease again among economists. I can't I can't confirm that. But I do know that obviously it is having a significant impact on the supply side. . Uh and and again as I mentioned before. . Is and this is in in this and I'm going back and I'll go back to your question. A second time is is a critical factor. I know in our business that as time carried on, and it takes longer to go ahead and get permits, we got caught, and we all get caught with kind of the southern current cycle that we're in. And then that ends up happening is things then have to sit and as a result, because obviously we can't afford the conservatory construction cost. . In terms of as a running business. Um, in terms of values in other municipalities put forth a pledge to to toot the fence to go ahead and do something to curb it. Interest interest rates. I haven't seen that, um so but doesn't mean that it's not something that we shouldn't all

be logging for. . Thank you. Councilor Costing Keeton, please Next. To the mayor. Thank you, Mr Kaufman. So what is the largest unreserved housing markets is the accessible housing both in low income and market rate across a large range of disabilities, and many cities are actually 10 year Wait list for wheelchair accessible homes, And, as Dr Moffitt said, type of housing is relevant during growth. I was just wondering what the Homebuilders Association plan is to meet. . That need is a part of this growth initiative. The and it's a great question. So ah, for for one, and I did highlight that in my comments that I know I look at all housing as necessary. I look at marking housing. I look at opportunities for affordable I looking for opportunities for accessibility. . Um and and and again. . I Every everyone's framework. The operating is different, but as an association were absolutely in support of of all forms of housing, and if there was opportunities,

obviously for products to go ahead and be inclusive and inclusive, also being accessible. I'm sure there will be opportunities will be explored. . Thank you very much. O'Rourke, please. Thank you, Mary Guthrie through you to Mr Kaufman first. Thanks for being here with us. I feel like there's an appetite to have more of these conversations, Perhaps not in this setting, which would be helpful. Um, my question for you is first of all I want to say thank you for building purpose, built, rental and managing them And please do more. . Um and Question I have is our local homebuilders have done a really good job of building really lovely neighborhoods with parks and trees and a public art in some places, and that is what is attracting people to come to wealth from surrounding communities. . So I heard you talk about you know, we could have less parking. If we have more transit and more bike lanes and all of these things, the parks, the sidewalks, the trees, the great the bike lanes. . Well, we need to build those with development charges. . So

How will the city continued to deliver on our peace with less funding? And then what is the homebuilders commitment to maintaining these neighborhoods, even with more density because the people in the highest density deserved the best backyards. . What is the commitment of the homebuilders to continue to build these quality spaces? ? Um Considering that the city will have less in terms of development charges. . Thank you. Councilor works, so that's a great question. So first and foremost, we absolutely support building great communities, but that is what we're driven to do. . Ah, the majority of the builders and developers in the association, our community builders. So, um, I'll definitely state that that is our passion. That's our interest. Um, I mentioned before, Um, that there is anything was for counselor class and discussing about the cost paradigm. Um, municipal fees represents one distinct line item on a budget. . When building a home and building it community.

The higher the charges are on municipal side, the larger than career the greater the impact it creates. On the development of that home. I mentioned that there was a black swan event and I feel that we're in right now. We have seen rising interest rates. We have seen higher hard costs in general. . And that could be just by driven market condition. It's inflation. It's it's um, dealing with, you know, labor rates. Um Ah, and all those things together have impacted affordability and our ability to go ahead and deliver housing. Um I am a proponent of growth paying for growth. . Approach also has to be reasonable. So I do think that we are in this together and we are trying to manage our side of the college cost items as best we can. We cannot manage all of them. I do support from Bill 23 the reduction in terms of development charges, and I do believe that it's necessary to enable the housing to be created. . Um How the municipality is going to deal with it.

I think part of this pledge is a great example of making an overture to the province to say We do need support. If we're not going to be going ahead and getting the development charges from the industry. Okay, and we are doing this. Then we need to find it some other way. And we need you the province to help to support that. Which is why in our submission we are in support of many of the comments and I didn't take issue. . With those items on the pledge. Thank you. And one last question, America three through you to Mr Kaufman. . Um I'm particularly concerned about Bill 20 three's permission to start building on wetlands or opening up the possibility of building on wetlands and groundwater community. We know that those wetlands are really critical in terms of water filtration, and that some of those long term impacts could be needing more capacity to to filter water. . So As local growth builders who know where a groundwater community Are your members prepared? And maybe not tonight. But would you remembers entertain a pledge to not build on our wetlands? ?

Ah, I think the association well It's hard to address that other specific areas counselor work that you're focusing in on or is it a general comment? ? Was it through humor Guthrie as a general comment. I have a concern around protection of our wetlands and respect of our natural heritage spaces. . And since we are all in this together, then I would like to understand what the homebuilders position is on maintaining, you know the tree canopy that the natural heritage system represents. And the important ecological function that our wetlands provide. Yes. So as in this, I can speaking personally, I can tell you that, and I would speak on behalf of The Associated also association as well, that obviously protecting environmental quality is is a Paramount importance and protecting obviously, environmental condition and developing in areas that were sensitive, obviously is, of course importance to us making sure we are mindful of the environment that we're in is absolutely paramount. Any development. .

I appreciate you stating that publicly. Thank you. Okay. Is there anything further for this delegation? Seeing none. Thank you so very much for joining us tonight. . Thank you Take care.

We're gonna take a five minute break. Okay, We're gonna come back in five. C at 9 55.

Okay. Like to call the meeting back to order, , please. .

Okay. I'm gonna call the meeting back to order and we're going to keep moving along. As I said. . 30 seconds ago to some people. I think we're rounding third, and we're being waved home, , so we're almost there. . Yeah. So, uh, Thank you to all the delegations and two staff and Ah! To Dr Moffitt as well. For the questions from my colleagues as well. We have a pledge in front of us. We have a couple of motions and I already know that there are Several Amendments. I'm sorry to come forward from the council. . I would I would ask, please. Being respectful of time. That You can as much as you can let your vote be your voice. . So as the amendments come forward. Let's keep moving. Okay, let's let's keep moving. We do have another agenda item where presenter is waiting for us Still, , so If we could still just keep that in mind, I would really appreciate it. . And I also fully acknowledged to that This is not,

you know, a quick issue. There's going to be comments on it, and I fully respect that as well. . But If we could try to keep our comments before the final vote, please like let's let's again Let's keep moving forward to get to the finish line, okay? Or to home plate as I keep with my analogy of baseball. . Um So I just need someone to move the pledge for me. . As is tabled right now I have a point of order your worship. Okay, go ahead. Given that it's it's 10 P.m., and we have probably two hours worth of conversation on this point alone. . And we have an extended deadline until the 22nd of March. Would it not be prudent to have a conversation over the next week or two and have this come back? ? At another date, so we can have a thorough conversation. Well, we're not all tired. Your worship. . So that's not for me to decide other than I can give you my opinion, which is no, I think we're rounding third, cutting calm. Let's do it. Let's get her done. Um, it does not. I cannot stop any member of council, though, from tabling a motion for deferral. . So I'm at the will of council on that,

but I would not support it. So so I'll leave that as my opinion. You asked me so there's my opinion. . Okay. . Thank you. . So is there a motion to at least put the pledge on the floor before amendments come forward. . Okay, Counselor. Gibson. Is there a second? ? Er thank you. . Councilor Boost until Um Let me go to Councilor O'Rourke. Oh, sorry You had your hand up, , Go ahead. . Okay? Yeah, I was. Okay. I was gonna counselor Rourke first. So with some amendments, then I'll move to to you. And then I have cancer. Keeton as well with some amendments, and then I'll go to you. . Sorry. . Yes. I'm sorry. My bad questions of staff first. But the but the motion is on the floor, which is good. I always like to get the motion on the floor before we go to questions. So to the clerks, the motions are on the floor. No amendments opening it up for questions of staff. Let me look around the room again for questions of staff. . Okay. I'm gonna go. Uh, respectfully because you called me out on it so well done, Uncle to you First Councilor Karen, and then I'm going to go caller and cult. . It's just one question. Um and it has to

do with the capital and infrastructure and I know that part of the pledge is is about that funding. . Um, So my additional question on top of that is that the last time we had a major housing boom in this city was between 1955 and 19 seventies was that 15 Postwar boom of housing, and it was mostly suburban sprawl. . All of that housing. Is reaching its lifecycle replacement for its infrastructure that that 60 50 60 year mark for its infrastructure in terms of so we're going to get a double whammy on infrastructure replacement when we're asking when we talk about infrastructure in this pledge. . We're just talking about the infrastructure for the new The new, uh, underground services that have to go towards building this housing. . There is no provision for funding or asking for additional funding for replacing existing aging infrastructure is that completely outside of the scope of this? ?

Pledge. So through through the mayor to, uh, counselor on, I'll start and then um, and was, uh we'll go from there and say that there's um, while the pledges focused on growth, and then the net new, um there's also a large amount of our growth. That's an intensification areas where we will be, um kind of doing in combination the infrastructure renewal as well as then widening and making those the you know the roads and the pipes sufficient size. . So Um, I would say it's a little bit of both. And we have referenced especially in the downtown revitalization program is a one specific one that, uh, pops out to me off the top of my head. So, um, does that answer your question? It does. I just don't know how or we should. We can frame in the pledge that if we have to make a choice based on labor supply material, metal pipes, concrete, all the all the infrastructure that we need to work on in the city. We have to make a choice between Queen, replacing aging infrastructure that is crumbling.

And building new infrastructure to fuel growth. I think, as you know, prudent upon council that replace the existing, So I'm just wondering if if there's a statement that we need in the pledge that makes it clear to the province that if we have to make a choice between growth and replacing existing infrastructure that we will prioritize replacing aging infrastructure is that is that necessary? ? Is it inherent is it Is it A Is it completely out of the scope of the of the pledge? ? Or the statement to the province. So three, Mr Mayor, I'm going to jump in and I look to anybody else that wants to as well. Um, you know, I think that's a fair question. And if you broaden it out a little bit, and I'm going to come back to try to help answer it. . You're going to have choices in front of you. If you're not made whole, it won't just be about existing infrastructure. As you have described. It might also be about service levels. . In and you know, counselor Busa tell earlier tonight asked me about You know, existing services in parks and no sort of things. If if the money is committed to do this, and you have to then make decisions. Um, you are going to have to make those choices. So perhaps there is some comments. I don't have a clear answer for you how to

word this, But perhaps there is some commentary here that That the provinces very focused on these 1.5 million and perhaps what they haven't seen, and I think that's what you're getting at is we have some other things some other fiduciary responsibilities to run this organization, and that includes other service levels and other infrastructure costs. So it might be an add on perhaps Um, let me kind of scroll back through those 27 things that are in attachment one just to see if anything is in there, and I looked at other staff because I think that's a fair answer. But if it's done, I think you should correct it. So I don't want counsel with the impression so it looks like D c o homes once that do it, I'm sure Thank you for the question through you, Mr Mayor, Council, Koran, I think if you If you look at number six, it just talk a little bit about committing new and existing human resources to deliver capital infrastructure to provide essential services for new housing and to keep existing services in a state of good repair. So we do pick up the fact that recognizing that we do need new services, but also recognizing the fact that we do have a responsibility

to upkeep, , the servicing that we already have. . Thank you. Councilor Crime Go lower than salt. Thank you for your worship to staff. First. The pointer was raised by by the delegate Mr Davis Douglas is staff aware of a report that speaks to a significant number of vacant properties and greater golden Horseshoe area. . Through America. 32 Councilor Dollar Yes, I'm aware of the report did come out just the other day to be fair. It's 19 pages and being that we've had this going on. I've got to page two of 19. . Um, but I think we've demonstrated previously that we do have a current supply of existing, uh, available units that could be built. And the report that was prepared has added up everything. And they did not talk to us directly. But they did use our growth monitoring report that we published last year and is on the website. Okay. So part of the 6400 approved developments and wealth would make up part of that report. Okay, Thank you. Thank you very much for

For that, Um and two did the comment by the other delegate through your your worship in terms of The pledge. It has sections we commit to doing this. These are the supports that we need. Um, , are there any potential negative. . Um, outcomes for the city. If even though we do not receive the support that we're asking, for, we're not able to meet the things that we are saying that we're going to meet so that I understand. In terms of we are pledging to do this. What happens if if we fail to meet our targets because we didn't get the support, But we failed to meet those targets just so that I understand. . What is the stick behind this pledge? Three Major Guthrie to Councilor Goller. I think the requests in the comments and the requirements we've asked the province to does help us, , Um Justify if we don't get there. We've asked for partnerships with the homebuilders industry with the universities with like this is not one person's problem to solve. So we've asked for that. . Um, And we do have all those conditions outlined

in the pledge. So if we don't have infrastructure money just to use an example. Then we can't build a certain component of the city. And and that's why we put those in there so we can ask the pledge the province in order to meet the pledge. This is what we had asked for. And this is why we're asking for funding. Okay, thank you for that. And on that last point of funding was I corrected my assumption that by making this pledge, we may be better positioned to receive provincial and federal supports. . Towards these projects, as supposed to say. We are not going to play along and we're not going to sign the pledge because we do not believe that the supports are going to be available. . America. 32 councilor dollars? Certainly what I've heard from my network since some of our regional planning commissioner meetings with the province. That is what we have heard that we do need to have these pledges in place. . In order to potentially advance our infrastructure funding ahead of others. . Okay. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that I had the right information there. I really appreciate that. Um, the part of the pledge on Section three. That comprehensive zoning by the review, it means that it There's a

the last sentence there. . Um And promotes intensification. So does this mean that you're going to go back to the drawing board and before because I believe that the comprehensive zoning bylaw was Due to be presented to council in April or so will this percent of delay because you have to make additional changes based on what we approve here today, or are we just saying that the zoning bylaw that was coming anyways? ? Already had these things? ? True mirror three to Cancer dollar. Um you know what? For us The zoning bylaw already had those items. I think we were. We were ahead of the province and already recommended ending exclusionary zoning and three units as of right, So we had that in our early drafts, um, so with the comprehensive zoning bylaw in April and will be a lot of discussion around that, But it does promote intensification as of right across the city as Only three units has the right but also in strategic growth areas that were identified through the recent official plan Amendments. Okay, Okay. I really appreciate hearing that The work has already been done locally to meet these needs. Um, and to the question of the of the development community, there was a section

in the report that mentioned that there was Consultation and counselor. O'Rourke asked a couple of questions if they were willing to not build on wetland. What level of conversations have been had with the development community, so that so that I understand and was there a commitment or or assurances from them that we signed this pledge, and they will also do things that benefit the community of wealth. . So through you, Mr Mayor to counselor and participated in a couple of those sessions just because I wanted to hear them directly. . There wasn't commitments given from the development community and I would say, but they were very cooperative in terms of the meetings and and Positive. And it was hard for them to speak on behalf of the entire association because they all look to different things. And you heard Josh tonight and he speaks to rentals. And there were some others that that don't deal with rentals and have a different view. So what we look for was common ground. And of course, we went back and forth. There's certainly things you know it was clear to us. They couldn't get behind. . Even though I think it's a brilliant idea to ask the minister to waive all the appeals. It would be hard for them to do that, because that

that is a lot of their association or behind those appeals. . So that wasn't common ground. We talked about it and that, but the initial meetings were set up. We can begin this fighting, or we can look for common ground and common ground moves in the yard sticks a lot faster and better. So that's where we spend most of the time and they certainly couldn't commit on behalf of the entire associated, But I think what you had tonight was good conversation with the particular representative speaking on behalf of the association. . And I think there is opportunities to hear from the association if one of those, and I think Josh said there might be one or two members that Get off line with being good community builders. Wouldn't it be ideal if the association showed up here and one night when it's for your approval to say as an association? We don't particularly support this application, and they speak with that unified voice. So we're not there yet. That's just Scott's dream. But I think we can get there with some of the discussion we're having. When you look for that common ground, , so no commitments to Their side of the pledge because they haven't been asked to force to and But you've heard us loud and clear. The province have a role to play the

Homebuilders Association, the development community heavy construction associated all have roles to play and couldn't including the federal government. So that's my way of being really trying to be very positive to reacting to what you were asking counselor color. I think there was good steps taken. No commitments from them. In terms of we shall do this. . Because there are also concerned with the things they don't control. And I think Josh said that as we should be concerned with the things we don't control, we don't control what they bring to the market. We can get their permit process moved along a little faster, Sure, always will look for continuous improvement. . That's in our D n A. . But Their commitments. Or it will be interesting when the rubber hits the road when these applications come in, because they that was a great example of wetlands. Um, because if apart from just being a filter, you've spent a lot of time and energy on the stormwater management program. . You might have to spend more time and energy on stormwater management program. If there isn't wetlands, you know, it's it's all connected here. So I think this is a good step for ongoing discussions with that association in particular. . Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that and through your worship in Section seven of the pledge. We talk about establishing a process of front ending agreements

with developers, and I think that's one of the things that I'm wondering if we are going to commit to Not just going a little faster, but essentially going 2.5 times faster in terms of our development approvals per year. . Um Do we get a sense that the development community was actually willing to front and the payments for these things so the infrastructure could get built. . So three. Mr Mayor, I wouldn't say there was great enthusiasm. . I would say that there is general interest because it happens in all places across this this province. . And for a fact and municipalities I've worked on before. Sophisticated developers understand that they might have to front end between themselves and have an agreement amongst himself that in this particular case, counselor Goller, you go first followed by me and then it's followed by Councilor Richardson in terms of the growth of the subdivision. . It is faster and easier if they want to do that and come to that conclusion themselves. That keeps us out of again more public money being used. But it also puts I think the question somebody had the question for Um, for the delegate about once you get a permit, Could you bring it on? Is there a consequence? ? If your front end in the agreements

There's a consequence right there. If we front in the agreements like we always have. That's public money invested in speculation can be a funny thing. So you tend not to speculate on land if you're actually part of a front end agreement, so I kind of like that perspective. . It's their money to open it up to give us public services and they front ended. You can't force them to do it, But it happens in lots of places, so that's why you see it in this report. And we will certainly be encouraging that and, uh, a lot of these areas that come forward on a broader growth scale. This isn't in full lot materials, and it's It's got to be on Claremont. We the good would be a really good example. . 16,000 units. That's a great example of where this could work. That development community didn't want to make it work when that was coming forward, But today is a different day. Maybe they will now. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that, because I When I look at the report from June last year, we have the 6345 approved units and I'm thinking if we're going to approve 2000 more per year Do we have assurances that we're not just going to build a whole bunch of infrastructure and sewage and roads

and then no one is going to build next to them. So that's it's It's good to see that is in there and just to be clear is that something we can actually enforce that requirement for forefront, ending those those payments or is that something that we asked nicely and they can choose to or not do it? ? Through you, Mr Mayor. We can enforce it. . We can ask, , you know. . Roughly. Maybe you're nicely but you know they're similar things sometimes and and insist that this will get them to move faster. So if their desire is to really move, why wouldn't you want to do it and work with your development partners? Um and what we can enforce it. You can enforce it. Once it's signed and into the agreement, But at this stage, it would be a suggestion and we think the province should encourage more of this. . And that might help move along, folks because Quite honestly, we will have to make decisions on where we invest public dollars for infrastructure and we cannot satisfy every developer that want something. Now there's areas of the city where you will have to spend money. . And the dilemma. The horns of the dilemma for us is we can spend it, but we can't force them to build. . And I think that's what counselor earlier was trying to get at. Where is the You called it a

stick. But where's the consequence? Maybe that will come out of some of the discussions with the province. . We've got timelines to approve things. . I don't know what's reasonable. But if we said you have to pull your building permit You know, whatever is the right Let me let me say something crazy 12 months. Let me go that far. And if you haven't you go back to stage zero. Well, that would be quite a consequence. I haven't seen anything like that coming out of this legislation. But maybe if we keep leaning on what you heard from Dr Moffitt, we understand that there will be another version coming forward later this spring. . Maybe those are things that we continue to keep our eye on. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. And with your indulgence, your worship. I do have one more question relating to some of the presentation from Dr Moffitt. In terms of what is actually needed. . We actually need Rent gear time. How come housing We need senior appropriate housing? We need family housing that is three plus bedrooms. We need student rental units, But that is not necessarily what has been built by the by the open market. Do we have a way to compel out of these 2250 approvals that we need to do per year? ? Can we say

300 have to be rent geared to income. 500 have to be senior residences. Is there any any way for us to actually put quotas on what we approve per year so that we meet the what we know is missing. . I know that through mirror gallery to cancer Dollar There's not, and that is for us. One disappointing thing That is 1.5 million homes, but it doesn't break it down along the continuum of housing. So that is, uh, you know a little bit disappointing for us, but we have put in the pledge that we've asked the province to help with this student housing and supportive housing in affordable housing. And those are what you know, we see as some of the biggest gaps we have. That's not necessarily market based. But those are some of the gaps we have. . Of so you put those in is Pledge items, Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Thank you. Worship. . Thank you. . Councilor Alton Clawson. . Thank you. America three. Can you hear me? ? Yes, we're on questions only. Ah, two questions to staff. The first one.

Mhm. Okay, counselor. Oh, old. Yeah, counselor. All it's not working. Your check is, um significantly. What will be the impact? ? Yes. . Okay. Um All right, thanks. Okay, So what? Why don't you try again Because you were coming in clearly at the end there, , want to try again? ? Okay, uh, affordable housing. I understand we are raising the bar from what it currently is in the city to financial No. That will have a significant impact on affordability in good health. I was wondering if staff could comment on that. . Please. . Councilor or just good to have you pause for a moment? I'm going to come back to you to try for a third time in a minute. It's not coming through. Okay, so I'm gonna go to Councilor Clawson, and then I'll come back to you, , okay? ? Hello. Sorry. Um I'm also far away. So I appreciate the patients and I just wanted to say thank you to staff and clerks and everybody who's

been answering my questions and the last little while I really appreciate your patience with me. Um, I have a question and, you know, I say this in the spirit of collaboration, just because I I think it's important to play the devil's advocate a little bit. . Um, I'm I'm curious. This is a question for you. . MEREDITH staff. . What? ? What happens if we as a council decided not to approve the pledge. . Councilor Clawson counselor. Goler Just asked that question. Um A few moments ago. I'm sorry. Maybe. Did you not hear it or I'm so sorry. Yeah, I thought I was listening to the answer. But then I just must have heard the question differently. I'm so sorry. No, no, it's okay. It's totally fine. Why don't we just repeat it one more time. Just so we all can hear it One more time. I'm gonna go back to Krista. It was you that answered it. So it was kind of like, what can be some of the consequences if we don't do this. . And Krista indicated that she has been hearing some something, so I'll go to Krista to answer one more time. . Through America, 32 councilor class and, um so For us to request the province to receive the infrastructure

funding or any of the other, you know, 20 items that we've asked for. We need to have the pledge in place. So we've certainly heard from ministry representatives at various organizations that we need the pledge in order to advance our status on funding initiatives. . And, um, you know, I think we've also put forward of pledge. It says what we can do, , but also we are requiring those other Opponents from the province to advance certain items for us to get there. So I think we are, um, you know, certainly we as staff are more than comfortable with with the items that we put forward because it does give us leverage with the province to ask for what we need. . Thanks for repeating yourself. Thank you. No problem. May I may I just say as the mayor just can I answer that question A little bit, too. Just from what I know Just just so everyone's on the same page. So, um, I too am just hearing that the province is putting a lot of importance on this. Whether we agree or not like they are. They're putting weight on this. . And if I could just say also from an intergovernmental point of view, we we We heard how from the from Dr Moffitt. We heard from our CEO how everything is sort of intertwined, right? Like

everything is connected to something else in this problem statement and you know, I'm thinking about intergovernmental and thinking about the federal government with their rapid housing initiative. . Uh, that is coming forward. The rapid housing funding that is coming forward like how is it going to be? How is it going to work for intergovernmental staff? Or how is it going to work for me as I'm trying to, you know, advocate for things that the city needs with the federal government, and they're like, Yeah, but you didn't even you didn't even do the pledge for housing at the provincial level. . Or how is it going to be for our intergovernmental staff for myself? Or many of you that might go to, you know, uh, delegation meetings and things like that, And we're trying to sit across the table from our what are supposed to be our partners, and we're like, we're the ones that walk in the room and we didn't. We didn't do this pledge, like, just play. Play that out in your head, , right? ? It makes it harder. It makes it extremely difficult. So, yes to what Krista is saying, Um, , as our head planner. . But I just want you to also hear from me that there there. This is all interconnected and, um You know, a city and on Ontario that does

do a pledge and does have shovels ready and does have planning processes in place to make things easier. . You know are they may be going to be at the front of the line for things from the province or even from the feds because they're ready to go, But we're the ones that aren't like. It's all interconnected. As much as we may like, or not like it's. It's just It's just the reality of the things that From an intergovernmental lens is what we have to wade through every day. And so just be aware of that, That's all. Thank you for the question, and it allowed me to jump in counselor Clawson. So thank you, Um, counselor all day to promise I go back to you to give it another go. . Did you want to try again? ? I will try one more time. Can you hear me? Yes. What is the impact of raising the affordable housing level to the provincially defined 80%? ? Okay, so staff. I mean, I think I know where counselor alters going here. Bill 23 changed the definition in regards to what is defined as affordable. What used to be based on income is

now being based on market sales basically of housing, and so how does that adjustment of Bill 23 impact What can be defined as affordable at a local golf level. I sort of know some of the answers to this, but obviously the planners or the best to, , um To jump in, and I hope I I did you well there, , counselor hold Thank you. America three to Cancer. Ault. Um, it will absolutely change. What we have defined is affordable previous to 2023 by changing it from income, , based to market based So we will. We're actually currently working on a report right now to see what is that? What is the difference? I've got a draft in front of me, but we'll go from there. Um, but it is going to change it and the numbers are going to change and the percentage of affordable units will increase. . Because they changed the definition. And if I if I could just jump in the issue that many municipalities are having with that is that if then the DC waving

Is tied to the new definition of affordable Okay. You could have you could have a housing wealth that is $700,000. I'm just making it up. But I'm probably not far off. It could be 76 50 to $700,000. . And that is now captured in the new definition of affordable, which means we are compelled to wave those DCs. . Okay, and, uh Kristen, I am I talking at a turn. No. For once. The mayor is not talking about a term. That's good. Okay, counselor. . All you still have the floor. . Try this one. The study. No one knows about. By Kevin E. B. Says the provincial and the federal government's must be involved in affordable housing. . Can staff comment. Through America three accounts wrote. Yes. All right. The answer is yes to that. Yeah. Is that the comment? Well. A. Are you saying for the provincial and federal

governments must be involved in Yes, our staff said yes. Fine. Thank you very much. Alright. Perfect. . Thank you. . Any other questions. Before I start going to amendments. Okay, There's no more questions. Thank you very much. Um, I'd like to work through these amendments one by one. And please again if you could please consider letting your vote be your voice. Be your vote. . Councilor down or I'm gonna start with you. And then I'm gonna go to Councilor O'Rourke. Next I do have everyone listed. So don't worry. All the ones that I know are coming in. I'm going to go to you, but I'm going to go to Councilor Downer first, please table your motion. Look for a secondary. I'm happy to give you a moment than to explain your amendment. Thank you. So I moved the motion That's on the screen the way I think it needs to be number two. . Yeah. Through you. Mr Mayor are just juggling all the motions. We received Council dinner. We would. This is tabled as an amendment. If you choose to move it, it would effectively become a number two. Number two. You would have number one is existing number two. As you see on the screen here. Number three is existing with the old too, and then we would accept any other amendments from the floor. .

And we would just capture those Noted as amended to number one, You can put it wherever you want, then this is the motion, so it's not withstanding current actions and new actions which were do I have a counselor caller undertaken by the municipality which were identified in what our pledge said was, , You know things that we Have been doing and what we plan to do to support the pledge. The council recognized that meeting the housing target is really subject to provincial action. . Um I didn't put the word really in there, but that's there, as identified by in a appendix a to support and implement the pledge. I just when I read the report, , I just thought This pledge just has to be conditional on what? What the province is. Ah, the action that we need them to do our request. Um, which I thought of been really well. Thought out of the thing is that we're committing to a pledge that we have no idea what the What we we We know it's going to be expensive is the financial impacts are not clear. . Um there's a lot of uncertainty around it.

And we need a significant amount of provincial input at probably and federal as well to support moving ahead with this. . I personally think that Um That these targets are unattainable for a number of the reasons that we've seen the barriers that we've seen in the You know, the labor shortages, all kinds of reasons that it fiscal capacity or capacity. Um, , I just don't think they're they're attainable. . Um But having said that, um it's it sounds like you know, there could be consequences for not during the pledge, but at the same time we have to put the onus back on. . The province that you know, really. Our pledge is only good if there's provincial action coming out of this as well, Um, in order to help facilitate this and You know, way that we There's no recognition from the province about the amount of work that municipalities have done recently in in their updating their zoning bylaws to make more housing and to do those Um through the you know, removing the exclusionary zoning and a number of other things that are coming coming

forward, So you know, and that's really unfortunate. A lot of the stuff that's already happening. I Ah! You know, we're I guess my my my. My rant earlier was about the frustration. I feel about this whole thing. I would prefer not to be making this budget all but I do think it needs to be subject to The provincial action that staff are requesting in the report. . Okay. Thank you. It has been moved seconded, So it is on the floor. May I look to call the vote? Is there anything further on this? It doesn't seem like it. So I'll go ahead and call the vote. Then is anyone against Alright. That's unanimous for that. Thank you. Councilor Downer Counselor. O'Rourke is next. And then after that, I'm going to go to Councilor Keaton. . Thank you, Mary Guthrie. Through you to counsel. I have three motions to our amendments to attachment. A. I'm going to skip a lot of the verbiage job circulated it earlier. The first one speaks to Brownfield remediation. . We know the city has About $24 million in liability to clean up brownfields that

came into municipal ownership. . Uh, one of those brownfields is a 13 acre property located immediately east of our downtown core. And so the recommendation is to add an item to the pledge document Attachment one that the city of Guelph requests the province of Ontario to prioritize investment in brownfield, remediation and wealth and across Ontario to fund the remediation and clean up of municipally managed contaminated sites. . So we can unlock these lands for housing, economic development and other community needs. Thank you. Councilor Boost until seconded that So thank you and your Your preamble explains that well, thank you. Is there anything further on this or can I call the vote? ? Okay, I'll call the votes. Anyone against this. . Okay. That too is unanimous. Thank you so much. Your second one. Please go ahead. Thank you. Mary Guthrie's for you. We also know the province of Ontario owned surplus land within the boundary of the city of wealth that could be used for housing. . Recommendation is to add an item to the pledge document Attachment one that the city of Guelph requests the province of Ontario. Donate provincially owned surplus lands in the city of growth to be used for substance for subsidized coop or non profit housing. Thank you. Is there a second or for this as well? I'll go to cancer to for the For this one.

Thank you. . And is there any questions or comments on this? Cancer cult. Did you have a question? Or were you just trying to second Okay, so I can call the vote on this. . It looks like Yep. Okay. Is there anyone against this? And not seeing any. That's also unanimous. Thank you so much. Your third, please. Thank you. Mayor Gus freezes third actually adds a clause to the recommendations and that is identifying the municipal master plans are predicated on provincially established population targets and timelines. They take years. They require consultation. They can cost millions of dollars. . They are integrated across departments and issue areas, and they are fundamental drivers of municipal budgets and our long term capital plans. . And the Ministry of Finance of Ontario has changed our population target twice in the past four years and the minister of municipal Affairs changed the planning horizon as Miss Gebert mentioned earlier from 2041 to 2051 that necessitated a review of many master plans and budgets that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and significant staffing resources. . The provincial government has also changed. The development charge. Parkland, education and community benefit charge regimes over

the past four years, triggering new studies requiring reviews of long term capital strategies. So the recommendation Murga three is that the city of Guelph, calling the province of Ontario to freeze changes in population targets and time horizons for five years to allow realignment of master planning to meet the needs of city residents and to cease changes to the planning Act. . To allow municipalities that time to focus on approvals and issuing permits rather than reacting to changes in legislation. . It's been seconded by Councilor Richardson. Thank you for bringing that forward any questions on this one? It looks like cancer. Gibson has a question. . Go ahead. . Um, just just a question like to the mover. . What? ? What is the mechanism? ? By which they could they could freeze population targets for five years. . It's the It's not all in their control, either. Well through you, Mr Guthrie to Councilor Gibson. The population targets have been set by the Ministry of Finance of Ontario. It's we, as a greater golden horseshoe municipality received targets from the province. Those have increased and the province could

Oz. Increasing that for the next five years, so that the master plans that we have developed to achieve those targets. We have a chance to implement them. . But I for the sake of conversation. I think I'm just gonna let my vote be my voice here, but I really there's a lot of layers to a conversation about Freezing population targets and like there's a lot of layers behind that conversation about what that has to be. . Um, so I respectfully I'm just going to vote against that motion. If that's okay, Well, I'm not even saying that's okay. It's my opinion, so I'm not going to apologize for my opinion. Yeah, we've taken a vote. It's not OK. Yeah. Alright. Can I okay? Sorry to the mover. . Three America three. I would just say that And the province sets those planning targets. We are required to plan to that target. Obviously, we don't control people who want to come here because it's a great place to live or people who want to move out of 12 like we don't control that. . But the province sets those targets and then we are required to plan to those targets, and that is what I am asking the province to leave the targets as they are and to leave the timelines as they

are so that the municipality has a chance to adjust. . Thank you. You've been clear. I just want to say one comment for a call The vote on this. . Absolutely. . I adore this. . We municipalities need breathing room. Like Do you want us to do you want us to, like actually approve applications give our staff the breathing room. . To do that, but the constant changes that are coming down Hey, if they have to do it, I get it because What have we always say? We are creatures of the province. They have the authority to do it. . We all recognize that. . But I I actually really love this motion Councilor O'Rourke because it says, could you just let us implement? Could you just let us do what you're actually asking us to do instead of pulling the very staff that could be approving applications? ? To go instead work over and over and over again. . On changes upon changes upon changes, So thank you. I think this is a great motion. Um, black counselor. Gibson. You go ahead, Mr Mayor. I was happy to let my vote in my voice and you insisted, that's what you wanted, But you you continue to raise the temperature

on the debate. So, um, are we going to tell new Canadians where they can live in this country? Are we going to cap and quota where they get to go like this is a I don't. I don't think we want to have this conversation about telling the promise to freeze our provincial target. . It's when the feds have now said they want to increase immigration to Half a million people a year and we're going to say Whoa, province. You better freeze those per you better freeze those growth targets like I I just don't like this conversation. I don't like it at all. . But that's you know, we we sometimes walk into these conversations, naively, not understanding what the actual ramifications of tomorrow But the province is listening to the feds on immigration policy, and we are now listening to the province. So if the province gets told, Hey, guess what, you're getting half a million new immigrant new Canadians more per year. . What's the province to do about that? I'm just trying to say we're like we're throwing a lot of rocks here, but it's it's not all up to the provinces to where New Canadians go. We just heard it. It's an influx of adults. It's not. It's not an influx of new births in this country. It's an influx of adults. . Well, thank you. Um, just before I go to Councilor Alton and I. Hey, look, this is fine. We're relative. Have these different opinions. Um, I would argue very strongly

that it doesn't matter what we think. Are water would tell us. Our water capacity would tell us that we can't have more people here anyways. So, uh, you know, like we we barely can meet the 208,000 people purely from from water capacity issue. . So Fran, counselor Alden and let's uh let's go call the vote. . Councilor all it might be bad, actually, on a point of privilege. I have some real concerns with the last complements the implicated machine. The targets are essentially race and I think that's something that we wish to avoid. . Okay. Give me no, We can't. We get the gist of it, though I would not. I would not view. Why did the chicken cross the road? Okay. Um, counselor. We're really having a struggle. Time hearing you. I'm so sorry. . But we did hear what you said there, and I certainly do not view a counselor. Gibson was saying in any way, shape or form in regards to

Anything to do with racism. It was just a population based on federal factors. . All right. I'm gonna call the vote so we can move on, please. Is there anyone against this one? ? Councilor Gibson? ? Is the only one. Okay. So that passes Thank you so much. . Moving right along. I'm going to go to Councilor Keaton and then Clauson after that. . Sorry. I'm just waiting for it to show up on the screen. . There we are. . Um, they can move this motion. That clause 27 of the Attachment one. The city of 12 housing pledge be amended as follows that the province increases funding for affordable, accessible and supportive housing projects to address the critical search shortages and 12, which would include funding for new units as well as ongoing support services. . Thank you. Someone willing to second that one for counselor Keeton Downer will do that for us. . Thank you. Did you want to say anything further to it? Counselor? Keeton before I call the vote, basically just adding accessible in there to make sure that we have that included. . Yeah. Fair enough. Thank you. Kids sing nothing further. I'll call the call The vote on this, then is anyone against cancer Kittens

motion? ? I don't see any. So that's unanimous. Thank you so much. I got counselor class in next and then mine is the last one. . Okay. Um, so I would like to bring forward A motion for federal government collaboration. Um, and that the motion read, um, that the federal government collaborate on these issues directly with the municipalities and with provisions provincial government and then also include R M P and P. M. On the correspondence that goes out with this pledge and As as just a comment. I think we've heard from a number of our delegates tonight, um and staff about the need for collaboration across not just governments, but also the private sector to be able to accomplish. Um, Any sort of growth target and so including the federal government, I think is a is a key factor, especially when we consider things that Mr Kaufman brought up such as the immigration targets, , Um and the Bank of Canada interest rates. . Thank you. It's been seconded by Councilor Downer. So I appreciate that. .

There's anything further on this particular motion. I don't see any. I'll call the vote then is anyone against counselor classes motion? ? Looks unanimous to me as well. Thank you so much. . Okay. And then the final one I have is from yours truly. . And I'll read it out. But but not going to any commentary until I see if there's a mover for me and in a second Sorry, clerks. Are you going to be able to get that up? Yep. Master your head shake. . Okay at the province be called upon to action and fund, the third Party audit program as soon as possible in order to validate and provide provincial funding to address the city of Guelph. . Growth revenue shortfalls created by recent legislation changes. Is someone willing to move that for me? ? Okay. I see on the screen counselor. Gibson, , counselor Clawson. . You'll second that Thank you. . So, um, it is, as it stated I have. I hope you guys have to We have heard, the premier say several times publicly, and the minister of Minnesota affairs publicly say we're going to make you whole You know, we're going to do some audits,

and then we're gonna make you whole. . So okay. Okay? Come on in. Let's do let's do the audits, then. Because then we got warned. Remember back in November. The bill 23 think we got warned buyers finance stuff, it could be up to 2% tax increase. . Because of the impacts of Bill 23. Well, I don't know I want to. I'm sure all of us don't want that to happen to our community if they're saying But if they do an audit, they'll keep us whole. Then I say, Okay, come on in. And as the mayor, I would say Okay, if we learn something new about the audits great. . And if we find if we find that everything's fine, which I expected to be, by the way that I think great. . But I would say Well, okay, let's let's call them on it. . Come on in. . Come on and do the audit and, uh and then they come back and sorry that they can come back and help us to to keep us whole. . So with that? Is there any questions on that before I call the vote? ? No. Okay. Thank you. I'll call the vote then is anyone against And that's unanimous as well. Thank you so much. I didn't have anything further on amendments or motions. . Yes, Counselor or America Three. I just think we have to amend the first motion because we've now

amended the attachment, so I think we need to do and as amended Okay, So I was about to call the vote as amended, but that's kind of what you're saying, right? Yeah, that was good to do that. Yeah, That's why I was asking if there's anything more before I went to the final vote. So is there anything more about this before I go to the final vote? ? Okay, So I'm gonna call the vote, then as amended All right. Is there a second page or is it just that one? ? Okay? Just just that one. All right? Um, is there anyone against It's unanimous as well. Thank you very much, everyone. I appreciate it. Thank you to staff. . I can give you a breather now. We have one more issue that we've got to take care of. Everybody. It is. The Elliott Long term care resident report the approval for the long term care home redevelopment. . And I believe we have I'm sorry. The clerks just talking to me. Yes. Could someone please put emotion down to extend the meeting past 11 for us To finish this last

topic, counselor? A. Rourke and counselor Downer will second. Thank you, Uh, anything on that? I hope not. No. Okay, I'm gonna call the vote and you won against extending past 11. . That's unanimous. Thank you so much. So we do have, uh, a quick presentation here. Or at least some acknowledgement from Michelle Kirker, the chief executive officer from the Elliott community and very much appreciate you and your patients. Michelle and we'll just, , uh Allow you to come on the screen there. Yep. You're coming here now. Perfect. Michelle, Can you hear me? ? Okay. . Yes, I can. Thank you, Mary Katharine. . Perfect. And may I say your voice is much better than last time. I know you weren't feeling the best last night, So thank you very much for joining us. Um, Would you like to give any kind of, uh, you know, just opening remarks to what's in front of us here. . Just a few quick words, because I know you've had a long meeting already. So I just wanted to thank, um the city staff along with the Elliott team who worked tremendously hard over the last couple of months to pull together. Um, what we

believe is a great step forward to putting more long term care beds to the city. Um, it's a lot of information in the report. . Happy to take any questions You may have, Um, but I just wanted to extend my thanks. It's been a tremendous work to meet. I know you've had a lot of conversations this evening regarding provincial timelines. But this aggressive timeline and so far we are on target. We submitted the design standards per the ministry's request today and every other document that they have required. . We are hoping for your support this evening to move this project forward to the next stage. So thank you very much for giving me a moment and happy to take any questions. I also Norm Wolf. Our chief finance and operations is also on the call with us today. . Well again just right off the top. We appreciate your patience. We know how important this is to you as well. Thank you very much. Are there any questions at all in regards to, um this item before? I kind of formally put it on the floor. . Not at this time. Just hang with us. We're going to maybe go procedurally through putting some of the motions on the floor whatnot. Just hang out.

. Just in case there is a question. . Um That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to our memo next. Yep. Any opening remarks from you? ? Ah, thank you. And and I know this is a little bit of a different process because you have the report from the Elliott before you and have an accompanying staff memo And, as the mayor has indicated, recommended motions are embedded in that report. I think, given the lateness of the evening I won't say anything beyond that. Other than Mr Cooper and Miss Baker here as well. If you have questions from a financial or legal point of view about the staff memo, But our memo is there for your consideration. And then the memos through the motions are there as well. . Thank you so much. Deputy o clock. Bush. . How about we just to formally kind of move forward and get it on the table? I asked for the motions on the open agenda at first be table Councilor Bruce until you said that you would do that for me. . Second er Councilor Downer. Thank you so much. Um, is there Is there any questions then further to this, or can I look to actually call the vote? ?

Looks like I can. Okay, That's great. So I will call the vote. Then on these on these motions, , is there anyone against And seeing no one dissenting on that. That's unanimous vote. That's great. And then, as I declared earlier, if everyone remembers around 6 30, I said that we had a couple of motions in regards to this that were coming out of the closed session that we are now going to address an open session and counselor also all look to you. If you can hear me, we're going to put them up on the screen. . Ah, so that you can you can table them. Thank you, Mary Guthrie and, uh, in in order to move these, I will move that City Council director Deputy CEO Public services to communicate with the Elliott Management and the representative from the Ministry of Long Term Care that the expansion project and funding approval for the expansion project our continued upon the hiring of a certified project management. . Professional to oversee the expansion project that the City Council direct Elliott staff to submit monthly expansion project updates to the Committee of Management for the Elliott, including details

on budget and the expansion, project status, Ministry of Long Term Care approval process and any changes in expansion project. Timelines moved by me and I am looking for a second. . Councilor O'Rourke will do that for you for you. Thank you so much. Council. Appreciate it. Um, Is there any questions actually on these two items? ? Okay, well, you get one from me, so I'm only thinking of this on the fly. So my apologies for not talking to you about this a little bit earlier. But when we get the monthly updates, can they be scoped? Similarly, you could just ask the Elliott to do this, By the way. It's I'm not trying to, you know, push this on them. But can it be scoped Similarly to our like Tier one project status? ? Updates. . That we get quarterly. I know that this will come monthly, , but Just so there's a little bit of alignment and how we see and read things that it's it's similar to. What were our expectations are on our capital projects. Yes, through the mirror to you and all of council, so we'll work with the Elliott to look at what our normal reporting processes. What our suggestion is going to be, is that the reports

come formally to the committee of Management. When that a body meets quarterly and then on the op the other months, it will come simply and writing and recognizing that it's of interest. . All of council. My suggestion is that we will obviously forwarded to all members of council, not just the Committee of management, even though the reports will be submitted to the Committee of Management. . Okay. Great. Thank you so much. Well, I didn't see any other questions and so called the vote then on these two matters that came out of closed session and so as anyone against these two motions Again seeing nobody. So I declare that passed and unanimous. . Uh, Michelle. Aren't you glad you hung out for all of that? We We appreciate you doing being here and and being a part of that. Sorry to make you again. . Wait any closing comments from you? ? No, thank you very much for your support. And we look forward to continuing, um, to move forward with this project and hopefully have long term care beds. Uh, add it to the city of Guelph very soon. . So thank you. . Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for your work as well until your entire team if you could pass that on behalf of council

Okay, Um, let's see here. Uh, let's go to bylaws, and with someone be willing to move the bylaws numbered 2023 to 076420767207712077820780. . And 20781 hereby past I have cancer. Goller willing to do that for me and counselor Downer willing to second. Those for me. Is there anything further on the bylaws? ? Casing. None. I will call the vote on the bylaws is anybody against the bylaws? ? Seeing none. I declare that unanimous vote as well. . And I have about 10 minutes of mayors announcements. No, I don't know. I don't. I am looking for adjournment from my ward. Six friend, counselor. Billings, Of course, Counselor. Buildings will do that. And someone far away is gonna second it. That would be counselor. Clawson. . Uh, , is there anyone against adjournment? ? And that's unanimous to have a great night, Everyone. Thanks for all the work for staff, the public and my colleagues have a great night. Bye