Permanent patio program and supportive housing funding

All right. Good evening, everyone. It is 6. 30. It is Tuesday, July 25th 2023. This is our City Council meeting. Thanks for joining us, everybody. And, um, I'd like to just officially called the meeting to order And with that if we could all stand if you are able, uh, as we listen to our national anthem. .

Mm hmm.

Remember? Thank you. And as we continue just a moment of silent reflection. . Great. Thank you. And as we gather, we're reminded that wealth is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history and home to many First nations, , Inuit Maiti people today As a city. We have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land in which we both live and work. Today we acknowledge the Mississauga of the credit first nation of the initial back people's traditional territory. We are meeting I need disclosure, pecuniary interest any general nature thereof for the items in front of us. . Don't hear or see anybody, so we'll move on. . And we're gonna move on to a special recognition tonight. . It's my pleasure to welcome a couple of athletes that have come back from the Special Olympics World games that were in Berlin from June 17th 2 June 25th of

this year. . And I'd like to just recognize a couple of people here tonight, the first being Mark Richardson. So mark Mark's lifelong dream was to compete at the Special Olympics. World Games in this dream became a reality when he was chosen to represent Canada in the sport of 10 pin bowling as one of the eight bowlers on that team Mark and his partner, Ian won gold in the men's doubles event, and Mark also won a bronze medal. . In the men's singles. And their team placed fourth over all. So let's give a huge round of applause to mark And a second here is Jennifer Allen and general was one of 10 athletes that were chosen for the first ever women's only basketball team at the World Games. . They played really well for a team that only practice together at a couple of training camps because they were all from all over our country. . Advancing to the gold medal game was just a dream, but they played really well and they came home

with the silver medal but also friendships that will last a lifetime to see our athletes have their dreams come true by standing on the podium and having their medals placed around their neck was priceless, wearing the maple leaf on their backs as proof that you can do anything if you believe in yourself. . As a coach. It was so rewarding to see their emotions and know you had a small part in their journey. So let's give a round of applause for coaches as well. . There were only 89 athletes selected for team Canada and we are very proud to have two from Guelph, Wellington Special Olympics and so with that, um, on behalf of council and the entire city we have city of Guelph medal that we would like to present to each of you and what we'll do is we'll just stand over here in front of the The 12th backdrop there, and I'll present those medals to each of you now, , okay? ?

Okay, less. That's that's so great. Congratulations again. . That's that's really awesome to be. . From our city and representing the country. That's that's so good. . Wishing you all the best. Let's start with the jump into the confirmation of open minutes. . The confirmation is for the open. . Council meetings held June 1st 13th, 14th 2023 and the Open Committee of the whole Meeting on June 6th 2023 be confirmed as recorded without being red. Is that you, councillor Gibson on the screen, saying you'll move that We'll move it with a comment If you don't mind, , Mr Mayor. . Ah, sure to secondary Christine Billings. Is that your hand up? Yes. Okay. Go ahead. Cancer. Ferguson. No problem. Thank you. I just wanted to acknowledge some like correspondence for the strategic plan from the Gulf Sports Council. Um, I just wanted to make sure all the councilors wear that. And I appreciate the effort that was put in on short notice to get that in. Thank you. . Okay? Yeah, that was sent by email today. Perfect. But on the on the minutes were good. I just wanna say there's any comments further on the minutes. . No. Okay, I am going to call the vote. . Is anyone against those minutes? ? And that's not hearing any. That's unanimous. Thank

you. So we do have the committee of the whole consent report. Now I think that's what Yeah, it's okay. I can see councillor. Gibson's given the thumbs up. I think the commentary there was from the 12 Sports Council that sent in something kind of in favor of where the strategic plan was going. . So thank you. . But we are that as part of the consent. We have the future golf strategic plan 2024 to 2027. . Does anyone want to pull that? ? No. Okay. And then we have the E scooter. We do have to have that pulled for an administration. Um, well a little bit further than that. I think the memo has to be added. So, um And then we had the paramedic Service response time. Does anyone want to pull that? ? No, with somebody willing to move consent on those two items for me, Counselor All councillor. Downer will second. Those two, not the E scooter. . One is anyone against those consent items. . Hearing and seeing nine. I'll consider those past will loop back to the e scooter. Um one then because we have some delegations. . I think Okay, going to the items for discussion we have dropping into the seasonal patio program. . For downtown. Well, actually, for the whole city. It's

not just downtown, and we had to have a delegation. . Is, O'Brien says by video is Brian. He's not available online. Okay? Okay? Staff will, um Staff will try to get ahold of him then. So why don't we just jump into the conversation about it? Because there was that memo that was sent out between committee and now, um, maybe I could have someone looked at least move the motion. . Outright first, Okay, caller and Clawson and then let's see if there's any. Is there any questions? ? I know that councillor O'Rourke has Um, propose something that she would like to bring forward, , But is there any questions? ? Did you have one councillor? Just just to comment. Your worship. If we could ask the clerks to please put the motion to screen so that, um And the just for everyone's information If you had looked

at the agenda of the main, , um Good. I'm good to worship with that on the screen, So I'll read it out that the seasonal patio program as described in the permanent seasonal patio program report dated July, 5th 2023 be approved pending budget approval as part of the 2024 to 2027 multi year budget. . All right. Let me just do a check in before I go to council. O'Rourke. Have we found that? That's how it is. Delegation available yet? Not yet. Okay, councillor work. Would you like to jump in on? ? Uh, your position and might might want for us to consider. Thanks, Mark Guthrie, um so in consultation with staff and further to their follow up memo that came I think it stated for tonight. . But that was in our package stuff have proposed a revised service level that actually makes the patio program revenue neutral, so we don't have to draw the municipal accommodation tax and really, they're looking at, you know, maybe a $5000 drop per year through property taxes or other funding. . So I would like to put that amendment on the floor. . And that is The first part of our motion, but it's that

the seasonal patio program, as described in the permanent seasonal patio program report dated July 5th 2023, So it's the first part Be amended to reflect a revenue neutral service level with a $10 per square meter per month seasonal patio fee with any additional funding coming from the general tax Levy in the case that fees do not fully cover the cost of the program. . Okay with someone be willing to second that one at this time. . Okay. Richardson will second it okay? Do you want to just give a little bit of commentary about the Why? And then I'll go to Councilor Downer for a question Sure can explain yourself. So the original proposal want had, I believe was $175,000 cost per year. . Um and that would fully consume almost a quarter of the municipal accommodation tax, which was what was initially proposed. . So in the interim staff have looked at what the service level could be. There would still be the required permits. There would still be there $10 per square meter, which they had thought was a reasonable amount. But there's less pressure on either than that,

or the tax base to support the seasonal. Um Patio program. So just like Our our revenue policies. Talk about what we subsidize. . So we subsidize, , you know kids who Can't afford to go to the swimming pool or we have different levels of subsidization. And here, I think I think the goal is usually to have the user fees where appropriate cover as much of that use. . Already. The patio program, uh, doesn't have a fee for anything on the sidewalk. It's really only the space that's in the parking spaces. So there really is a significant amount of public space being allocated for private business. And, yes, it's a tourism draw. So there's there's a balance there. Um, but I do think it should be revenue neutral as much as possible. . Great. I was just told by the clerks as you were explaining your motion that the one delegation is available now, So let's just pause for a moment. Let's hear from the delegate and then I'll come back to councillor down or if need be. So our delegation is Brian Steele. Brian, are you

available? ? So Brian, it's Mayor Guthrie and I think to a mute you have to press Star six. . And also turn on your camera as well. It's good. Try again. Brian it it's it's Mayor. Guthrie. Can you hear me? Okay. . Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna pause. You can try to correct that if you want for another time. I want to come back to council. I know there's a few more questions anyway. So I'll start with questions with councilor down and then over to call her Uh, yes. So so just to clarify their original Um, it was a recommendation in the report and staff. Haven't I just want to be clear that staff haven't proposed this Suggestion by, um But you've put in the memo. It was just in response to a question because I heard councillor or

Call them both proposals. One was the recommendation and one was this suggestion of an alternative. Is that that clear? Okay, so and that's fine. I haven't decided yet. So I just want to make sure that, , um How are do staff think that the That reducing that kind of service. Last levels will compromise the patio program at all. Or is there any concerns around reducing that cost? My concern is around as approving the 75,000 and then staff are doing all that extra work anyway, like, you know, , and it's taking time away from other things so I don't want to. I don't want a short shift the program that's that's basically it. Um So could you just give me some idea? You've expressed some concerns on an email, but I want to hear it in the open session Things. . Um, through you chair to cancel er down. Er, um the the change in service levels associated with the route reduced budget would come from, you know, shifting to a part time staff person who would be in charge of ad men of the program

strictly with no additional space for other destination development programming support, , necessarily. . Um, However, so in terms of things like inspections, those things would still be maintained as proposed because those are being covered by an additional fee as well. Um, but what we are considering when we do a service level reduction is we want to stick really closely to those, , Um Ah, those install indeed installed dates that we have proposed as a part of the future program or a permanent program because those firmer dates do you reduce overtime impacts in those kinds of things? Uh, so that that is kind of the service level reduction that we're looking at. . So you're comfortable with the $75,000? Is that what you're seeing now? Through your charity councillor? Downer? Yes, we do Think we can meet the expectations of businesses. Okay, Perfect. Thank you. . Just to be clear for the mayor. You do feel that everything would be fine. Based on what councillor workers tabled. That's what you're saying. . Directly to you, Mary. Yes, Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Everyone, Gahler and then Claussen. Thank you. Your worship to the more of the amendment of the original staff recommendation was to have an on street rental fee of $10 per square meter per month. So people who have only under sidewalk they would not pay anything people who use sidewalk and street They would pay for the street portion. If I am clear by reading the wording. Now every square foot of patio will be charged at $10 per or square meter $10 per square meter. . Is that is that the difference between the staff original staff recommendation? ? And this one. So let staff answer that, okay? ? Uh, through you chair to councilor. Dollar. Um We provided councillor Rourke with a mis wording it would still remain. The on street fee would be charged at $10 per square meter. It would not incorporate a charge for the sidewalk feast, , so I will Okay, just that quickly. Okay. Okay. So then if if I understand that we are removing the the amount that

we said that would come from the mat. But I'm not clear if we're still going to church $10 per square meter on the street, and the motion is to charge $10 per square meter on the street. . What is the difference? ? Thank you. Um, so through America 32 Councilor Goller. The difference is in the availability of a staff person after all the inspections after all this set up, so it's in the potential level of service afterwards, right? So staff have looked at what that level of service expectation is going to be, and they found ways to trim that back so that the cost of administering the program comes down, which makes it more revenue neutral. There's still a user fee strictly for the on street portion. . Which is a good deal because you get some public space thrown in there. . Um, , but staff To their credit have found a way to do it in a less expensive way. Okay, thank you, and not using the municipal accommodation tax, which makes it revenue neutral and not on the map. Thank you so much. I really appreciate understanding that and if I could clarify from staff based on what is being moved by in this amendment With the end user, the business downtown accessing a patio. Would there be any cost difference to them

between what was originally proposed that the committee of the whole meeting and what this amendment is moving? ? Through your chair to councilor dollar? No, thank you very much. . Thank you. . Great. We're going to give our delegation another another try. . So, Brian, It's America, Guthrie and you hear me? Can you guys hear me? We can hear you. That's great. Uh, are you wanting to turn on your camera as well? Or did you just want to do audio? ? Can you hear me now? We can hear you. Loud and clear. Thank you, Brian. Did you want to turn on your camera or just do audio? ? I will. Just two audio. I just got back from work and, uh, 20 years can be Oh, all right. Sounds good. All right, so you have up to five minutes if you needed to give us your take on the seasonal patio program. . And as soon as you start talking, I will start the timer. So go right ahead. Got it. Thank you, everybody for taking at the time in council to hear my delegation. Um, I apologize for my tardiness. I promise you I will be late for my own funeral, um,

fired off with saying that I full heartedly disagree with the $10 per square meter, um, for the seasonal pedal patio program. Um, I want to break down some math for you. Um, I see that Toronto is charging $49 a square meter and Tronto metro population is 3 million. Heat might want to write this number down, but it's not extremely important. . But if you Take the $49, a square meter by Toronto Metro is 3 million population. The cost per person is zero decimal for zero zero's 1633. . If we take wells population at 150,000. And divided by the $10 the proposed $10 per square meter. . Um, , we get 0.40667. . This translates to 12 charging 4.08 times more than Toronto. So we're valuing our street space at four times

more than Toronto. . Um Another stat here. Is that Toronto's population density is 4149.5 per square meter wealth is a mere 287 people per square meter. . You can walk out your door and Toronto and pick any number of institutions, right? Your bar has an opportunity to pull in 4200 people. . Welch in our downtown choir. We have 287. Lorena serves, I wouldn't Underestimates, saying 550 people on a Friday evening So we are pointing people from The far reaches of wealth, if not other cities. . Based on our population density. Um I'd also like to take a minute to talk about. . The narrative that bars and restaurants are making money hand over fist with patio season. .

Our labor costs generally runs around 35%. Our food costs runs around 35%. . Are rented 10% Gas and hydro coming around 3% and operating costs, repairs. . Um Anything to make the patio run comes in around 10%. . Our profit margin is is maybe four cents on every dollar. . It doesn't matter that there's more sure that our revenue goes up slightly, but four cents on a dollar for a restaurant. We are not. I assure you making money. . Hand over fist. . Um We are creating destination. For the city and with the $10 per square meter. . I don't think Lorena. I know the river will not be putting out our patio. . Right. I think that's $3 a square meter 500% increase over the $3 per square meter yearly. We go $3 per square meter monthly is still a 500% increase. . I think that is more than fair. .

Um, I also have signed document from Charles Nash Nash at Frankenstein's Bob Dole, who who represents party town, Western trappers, and McCabe's, as well as Justin Course, orphan from Jimmy Jazz and Royal and I would happily for these documents along. . And, um calls notes with the proposed patio fee of $10 per square meter Royal Electric Jimmy Jazz will be unable to afford to put out their patio. . This is a difficult decision to make, considering that the patio program draws so many people to downtown Wolf. We hope that the patio representatives and City Council find a way to adjust this rate because we simply cannot afford $10 per square meter. . That is the only half for you guys. Okay, Brian. Thank you. Yep. I appreciate you joining us and giving us your thoughts. Let me see if there's a follow up. . And there's one follow up here from councilor Boost until Thank you very much for your presentation. Just a question about the labor costs. I'm curious whether or not your labor costs you hire additional labor during the

patio season. So you double your labor, or is it just a transfer of patrons and staff from inside to outside? It is a transfer. All restaurants operate around about a 30 to 35% and we would love to be at 30%. . Um, that extra 5% Just just, um, I think we get because we, Lorraine to specifically really goes for quality of service and tries to make sure that people feel welcome when they're in. . On our patio and in golf in general. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Seeing no other follow up questions. Have a good night. Thank you very much. . Thank you Take care. Okay, so it is back to us. And, uh, I just want to go to Deputy CEO homes for a moment to give some commentary. And then after that to a councillor, , Keaton Thank you through you, Mr Mayor said just to put a fine point Council dollar on your question in regards to what the difference is, Um, the there is a reduced level of service with the amendment that's on the floor now, because we do have a part time person there instead of a full time

person. So the setup will all be the same. That takedown would all be the same. But the ability in between To respond to customer inquiries, Um, to take care of some issues. The service level there, of course, would be reduced because we only have somebody part time, so I just wanted to put a fine point on what the difference of would be between what would the staff had originally recommended and what's on the floor right now. . Okay. Alright. You okay? Okay. So, , uh, , Councilor Keaton and Gibson Sorry. Having new issues. Um through you, Mr Mayor to staff. . Um, it seems I've gotten this feedback from a couple of restaurants. . That's the jump. . From the three to the 10. That seems to be a lot to digest. And I was just wondering what the impact on the mat would be if we did a two year staggered increase on the

I was all that councillor workers making Three year marriage to cancer. Keeton Ah. So if we were to phase in over two years, um and maintain that $10 per square meter per month, , um we would be looking. . Uh Closer to 7 50. Let's say for that first year, um and we would probably need to draw just story just doing some quick math here. We would probably have to draw $20,000 from the municipal accommodation tax or another revenue source if we introduced at 7 50. . Ah, for that first year and then that second year would come back up to that 10 and we would be looking at about, you know, $5000. . Thank you. Councilor Gibson. Thank you for you, Mr Mayor. Just a question to staff. I'm sorry. Didn't offer this in advance. But I'm aware of a few other patios. Maybe they were older before the patio program came in that it actually had encroachment Agreements. Um,

I'm thinking of a restaurant along York Road. Can you help me draw a comparison in terms of the cost to a typical encroachment agreement? ? For a business or a restaurant. And then what is being proposed here? ? $10 a square meter Is there a cost comparison that you can provide? I know I'm asking on a short notice. . Through you Mayor to Cancer. Gibson I would have, we would have to come back with that information. . Okay, so just I guess my follow up through Mr Mayor. A standard encroachment agreement isn't set based on the square meters of the of the encroachment into a city property. It is it is it set a different way. . Through your marriage Counselor Gibson. Uh, it is not based on square meters. . No. . Okay. I'm just thinking out loud here, you know 30 by 30 Cardio in the downtown at $10, , a square meter But I guess that would be 90 Square meters. No, that would be more. I'm trying to do some math. On what? What a typical 30 by 30. .

Um I guess. 30 Ft by 30 FT. 10 M by 10 years 100 Square meters at $10 a square meter $2000 a month is that Does that mean that math makes sense? ? Three. You chair to Councilor Gibson, Can you please repeat the number? ? Yeah, I'm just thinking about a 30 ft by 30 FT, , A modest patio. . So that's a bit of a 10 M by 10 M Patio 100 Square meters. . Um what would be the price tag on that per month would be On 100 Square meters. I'm assuming that would be $1000 a month. . Uh, 100 100 times sorry through your chair to cancer. Gibson, Uh, the consideration of a built patio on private land would be at presumably the cost of the commercial value of that land. So we are proposing a program that installs patios onto on

street space. . Yes. . And So that that has been balanced against commercial like we have. We have looked at commercial rates for the average retail space and applied that to the rental fee to help cover the costs of the program. I guess I'm just asking what would be the cost burden for a patio now, with this motion on the table patio moving forward. . What would be the cost burden per month for 100 square meter patio. . What? What is the new cost burden on a typical business per month. . I thought I'd done the math to about $1000 a month for a permit. . I'd like to just Confirm that Um, through you chair to Councilor Gibson. We're just going through our notes here because we had some examples of patios and sizes and their related costs, Um, with the original report, So we're just trying to find that information. Um and yes, and patios on sidewalk. Um, do have an

encroachment agreement, and those fees are stipulated and approved through the user fee bylaw. . Along with other fees related to those, um, those realty fees. . Maybe I'll ask my question a different way. We're moving a motion here. Just putting a cost burden back onto the business owners. Can I ask what a typical cost would be a new cost burden for that business owner? What is the realization of of this motion on a typical On a typical patio. And the new business kind of business. Expect another $700 a month. 500 like, what is is there a range of costs? I'm just trying to understand where Lorraine is coming from. . Through you. Chair to councillor Get Gibson. Ah! ! The average cost for, you know, an average sized patio, so the example that we gave was 60 Square meters. That's about the average size of a patio. Currently active would be about $600 per month or 3000 for the season. I think that was a long way to get in there, but I got my answer. Thank you. So if someone had a 30 Ft by 30 FT Patio 100 Square meters you're talking about

The $1000 a month of cost for the For the permitting. . I appreciate it. . Thank you. . Okay. Thank you. Is there A I think we just have a little bit of wording correction that councillor Um O'Rourke response to make sure we're all aware of Thanks three. So just to, UM Councilor Gibson's last comment that $10 isn't new in this motion. It was $10 in the staff report at the beginning of the month, so the motion doesn't do anything to change the cost. . All the motion does is it makes the program revenue neutral and also any Variants in terms of the cost of administration. The program is not on the municipal accommodation tax, but would be on the tax base to the tune of about $5000 a year, which I think is reasonable, so I just want to be clear this motion doesn't increase increase the cost of all Um And while we were chatting staff proposed clarification, thanks to a councillor, , dollars Eagle eye. . So I'd like to call my motion off the floor. Uh, with the permission of the secondary and just re table the corrected motion with all right.

Let me go through my process here. You're removing it. The mover? Yes. You're removing it. The secondary? Yes. Does anyone in council disagree with removing it? ? No. Okay, that motion is gone. Okay, back over to you to table the correct one. So the new Clean wording is that this seasonal patio program, as described in the permanent Seasonal patio program report dated July 5th 2023. . Be amended to reflect a revenue neutral service level with a $10 per square meter per month for an on street fee with any additional funding coming from the general tax Levy in the case that fees do not fully cover the cost of the program. . Councilor Richardson. You okay? The second? That one. Okay, Great. So it's back on the floor. . Thank you. . All right. Is there anything further? I have a few questions myself, But I'll go to cancer. . Karen first Sure I have my numbers right as well. I know. And, um Mr Mary apologized. This might not need to go back to counseling. Gibson, who was also doing calculations about 100 Square foot patio, and the calculation was $1000. But the motion and the and the staff report is $10 per

square meter, so I just defected. Ask staff a 100 square foot patio. . Square foot patio. Would not be $1000 per month. What would what would the cost be? ? Just to clarify it was it was 100 Square meters when I was talking to 30 Ft. Yeah. Okay. Thanks for that clarification. My second question. I did give staff a heads up. It seems that they one of the more significant costs that's um perpetuating or that that's led to the fee is the setup of the water barriers. And I know it's not the first time we've all heard his councillors and the public and Put this question of staff about the necessity of the water barriers, and when we first started the program, it was certainly understood that there was a code for We're on anything on a roadway, and I visited numerous patio throughout Ontario since then, and we this is the only, , um Type of barrier that I've seen. Counselor. Crime. Cancel Corona. I'm very sorry to interrupt. I just wondered. Maybe I like it because you're talking about such a separate issue, which I don't disagree with. But can I just narrow down costs

and and try to make a decision about the weather? Okay, I see where you're going. Okay? Costumes, more aesthetics. And I'm sorry. My apologies, aesthetics at all, and certainly not questioning safety or risk. It's that if if the water barrier It was not Required for setup. How would that change the cost recovery? ? I just got to my point a little faster with that question. . For you. Marriage councillor Karen, Um, we would, as part of as part of the ongoing program. We are. We are looking forward to different options. We have heard lots of feedback, even internally with staff about, um what, Um, replacement barriers could be could look like as long as they still function in a in a safe way. We also consulted with our operations staff who said the water barriers are very easy to empty and move. . Which cuts down ultimately on the set up and tear down costs as well. . Um, and helps an emergency if we need to do something very, very quickly, and in the downtown around the patios, Um so all that to

stay all that to say as the permanent program is approved, we would you know, we will be looking to other options, um around barricades, especially as it relates to any downtown infrastructure, temporary or otherwise to adjust patios. . So there could be a possibility that we look at something that may result in in in a less costly option. But I can't say that for sure right now. So in terms of this recommendation that the costs that are embedded in the report, even if there's a change of those barriers, that's the recommendation because it's within the same ballpark. . Come. Thanks, Mr Mayor. That's the end of my questions. . Yep. Thank you. I'm sorry I interrupted you there. . Um, , you were on You were on point and I didn't understand. So my my qualities. Um okay. Any other questions? Because I have one. So I you know, , I am concerned. . A little bit about the costs here, hitting Some of them to be able to do it because there is such a draw to the downtown. I believe there is a tourism draw for our downtown core, which benefits more than just the businesses that have

a patio. . Um, , I know that because My wife and I have walked around as we're waiting for a table and gone and bought something out of nine restaurant store. And so it happens, right? ? It draws people down. . Um so My concern is that Is there gonna be any follow up? Because this is like a permanent This is a permanent program. We're saying this is it. . Is there any follow up after this first year? With downtown businesses or others around how it went. What was the uptake? Because council going to get some kind of a, even if it's an information report or something just like, okay, we had X amount You know, the first year in unfortunately in Covid, we had this much and then we Oh, my gosh. It grew to this much and oh, my gosh, agree to this much and then we made this decision and it was like, , boom. . Just the bottom fell out. . I would like to kind of know that I'm sure we'll all be able to optically see that if that's if that's what happens, but be nice to have some kind of a report back. . To tell us how it went. Or there was no change, right could be could be. . There was no change at all to

Sorry that made that. Um yes, Mayor Guthrie. It's absolutely um, something that we we talked about. I remember in the first presentation as well about monitoring the program ongoing in terms of cost and revenue side of the program. So, yes, if there's a will of counsel to have follow up information report through a mechanism we can look at if there's an existing avenue to do that, or, um, , yeah, , we're happy to follow up. . Yeah, I would. I'm just looking at some heads nodding in the room here a couple on the screen, so maybe we can move them You council to consider moving a motion for an information report after one year follow up after after all, this is taking it. Give me a separate motion. I'll leave it to counsel because I can't move it. But, Yeah, Go ahead, councillor. Donna, just through you, Mr Myth manually. Concern with that monitoring report is that there are a number of patios that are Empty. Um, a lot of the time. And so of course, this fee is going to filter that out a bit, right. Um, so when you monitor it, like it's going to be the patios that where it doesn't make financial sense for them, So it's going to be not a real You're not going to get a really good monitoring sense until

the 2nd and 3rd year I think of the patio program. Compare it the baseline will be next year. . And then continuing because I don't think you can compare it to this year when people are you know businesses are putting them up without the expert. I know some that put it up without the expectation of having any but Because it's not costing much. So, um And it, you know, but it takes up parking spaces and if they're not being news, and we have to consider that, so I'm just a little concerned about monitoring and coming to too many conclusions after the first year, because I think we will see a drop off. So I totally agree with you, Counselor. Totally agree with you. Um and I think I think that could probably a take away if such an information report came forward that that That our professional staff people to incorporate into the data collected and the results of that, you know, sorry to staff Go ahead yet We were just speaking here and there could be an opportunity to do this in a more holistic way as well as we consider the planning for downtown infrastructure renewal, and maybe as a preemptive peace to informing that program we come back with, , um Probably more than one year in terms of assessment and

analysis of the patio program, because ultimately will be likely. I'm making some adjustments to make sure there's there the patio program as it looks right now, and we're proposing now has some sustainability through the infrastructure renewal piece as well. . Okay, , thank you. . Well, look, I I may have veered off and done exactly what? I should have been talking, interrupting myself like I interrupted. Councilor Karen think I veered off instead of calling the calling them the vote on the amendment. Alright, so we're going to call the vote on the amendment, which is the $10 as as, uh, as a council, O'Rourke suggested. Okay, so I'm going to the amendment is not on the $10. The amendment is on the Revenue neutral service level adjustment. I'm sorry, Yes. . As councillor or work just stated that part all right, I'm going to call the voters. Anyone against that. . Okay. That's unanimous. Thank you going back to the main motion, then as amended Um, is there anything further on this? No. Okay, well, I would just say that my only comment for the vote is, um At some point, , we knew this was coming. . I think that's important. Like at some point,

we knew some kind of permanency was coming and there will be cost to it. . And, um This may be the balance we're looking for. We don't really know until we try something. . And we encourage people to work with our staff in regards to how they can implement successful patios wherever they are. . And because it is it is a great thing I think for our community, and nobody would deny that. So, uh, but we knew this moment was coming. And we we have to as a council set policy to move forward on something. So let this be the foundational thing and and we'll go from there, , okay? ? That's my two cents on it. So okay, I'll call the those anyone against the main motion as amended. . Okay? Not seeing any. That's unanimous as well. With anybody Be willing to move a motion for an information report to come. Okay, councillor. Clawson would be willing to do that, uh and and chew will second it So of course, our staff needs some kind of wording for that motion, so I can verbally say it out loud as an idea or do you have it already Written or go ahead?

? Hmm. And the that staff come back to council on an annual basis with an information report on the permanent patio program. . Does that feel comfortable for you? Staff just confirming That's an annual report. . Yes. Yeah, and annual report. Okay. You okay with that? Yes, it's a world of council. Yes, okay. . Do you have a question on the amendment? I'm sorry. The motion. Go ahead, Counselor. Work three. So we just heard staff say the first year won't give us any good data. Really? ? Because the first you will be the baseline, right? ? So if we We you know, are Right. So so staff said two year might be helpful. Or every two years like you won't see trend data after one year, right? And so I'm just I'm just asking the question. That's what I heard from staff at the preference was to to wait two years. . So that they would have some stability in the first year and then see the trend going forward after that. .

Um through you, Mr Mayor. We just if we could just clarify, so you're right in the first year, we're going to have a certain set of data. Um, just as we mentioned in the next few years, the downtown renewal is going to start taking place. So it's not going to necessarily be apples to apples. . So we're We're happy to report on it. We might suggest maybe every other year 24 and then maybe 26 because that work is going to be happening, and it's going to change how the patios get get built and utilized in the downtown. . Just a suggestion. . Okay? So someone would have to move an amendment to change it to buy annual I disagree on it. I would like to know. . I would like to know how it's impacting. . And I am I am. I think mature enough to understand that it can't be apples to apples comparisons, but I would like to see the data and I can digest it and myself, so that that's that's that's where I'm at at it. Does anyone want to change it to two years? ? No. Okay, Then I'm going to call the vote, then on the motion as it stands for the information report on an annual basis Is anyone against that? ? Nobody. Okay, So that's unanimous. I think

we're done with the patio program, then, right? ? Okay? I think we're good. We'll see everyone on a patio later. . Okay? The next thing Is the bylaw Review update and we do have a delegation. . And that is Donna Jennison over the phone is joining us. . So, Donna, it's Mayor Guthrie. Can you hear me? ? And Donna, If you can hear me, you just got to make sure you press stars six to mute. . So Hello, Donna. It's Mayor Guthrie. Can you hear me? ? You just have to press Star six to a mute. . Oh, Donna, I think we almost heard you there. Can you keep talking? ? Alright. One more time. Donna, it's Mayor

Guthrie. . You gotta press Star six to mute. . Can you hear me? Okay. Clerks are indicating that they see you muting and then muting and then muting and then muting yourself. So again, , Uh, , maybe just try talking. . As you press Star six and then I'll interrupt you as I hear you. . Okay. I can hear that. Donna, can you speak for for us? Alright, We're going to have to Move on. Unfortunately, we will continue to have our Clerc's try to reach you. . To walk you through that as we discussed this because I have a feeling we're going to be discussing different elements of it anyways. . So, um, I'm gonna go back to us as a as a council. . Ah, um We have all of the recommendations that have come from committee in regards to the by law Review update. But of course, there was the up updated memo that was sent from staff. .

That's attached as well with information on how much of these items No. I was about to suggest away and maybe us working through this just so we stay on topic. . Um, but you have your hand up, Did you? Can I go first or you want to? I was just going to ask if I could move the motions in the memo rather than the ones in the agenda just so that we're moving the motions that are most recently suggested by staff, and then we'll work from those Uh, sure. If I could just ask the clerks to do you have those ready? ? Okay? Yes, Mr Mayor. We do. Alright. And I, um it's just the one page right? You've got them all on the one page there. . Is that right? ? Yes. . All right, well as to try to keep with, , um our new procedural bylaw. . Here we go. There are four of them. The first one is that staff report backpack Tober 2023, with additional information on the current work plan of bylaw reviews being undertaken by the operations department so that council can consider any potential deletions or deferrals from the work plan. . Number two is that staff report backpack Tober 23 23

on potential timelines, timelines and resources required to undertake a review of the existing noise bylaw as oppurtunity vehicle noise in the use of noise cameras. . The third is that staff report back to October 2023 and the potential timelines and resources required undertake a review of the penitential outdoor recreational fire by law. . And the last number four is that staff report back on October 2023 potential timelines and resources required to undertake a review of the existing by law to regulate the display sale and setting off of fireworks. . So let me just see if there's a secondary for this to get it on the floor for a conversation at all. . Okay. I don't see any Yeah. Yes, you are councillor closer. Okay. Okay. That's fine. OK, there are these four on the floor, , then. . And so now I'll get to my suggestion, which would be let's Let's stay on one topic. Deal with it and instead do another one. Okay, so basically, I would say, let's just split the four Okay, let's just just easier. So can you pull them back up on the screen for me?

Clerks again one more time. It's just easier for me to see it that way. . The first one I think is the The option of sort of like, what would it take for consideration of what's in and what's out what can be deferred? ? Do you want anyone want to speak to that one? Okay, Counselor, Goler, just your worship on this on June 9th. When we received the update from staff, there were some Bilas that had been waiting for review for several years now, and one concern that I have is maybe there is no longer a relevancy to have those wireless reviewed. . And I would love to hear from staff through this motion to see if there any of the planned bile us that will be updated or created in the next four or five years are no longer needed from their perspective. . Okay? Ask you, Counselor. Dollar question. Because you're kind of the your mover of all this kind of stuff. Do you mind if I just asked a question? ? Of course. . Does number one only really come into effect. If any of the following three class, I would I

would also ask. Maybe we can ask the staff effective if if sorry if the 2nd and 3rd and the fourth fail Then then why are we? Then Why are we approving number one Or I just want to make sure I'm doing it in the right flow that it makes sense that we're not So defeating something they get through the merits Council. I think the advantage to number one is if there are other things on the work plan that you I think the questions came up last time there was it prompted some discussion. So if you would like us to come back and revisit the work plan that is laid out before you and the information report is as it is now. . So if you would like us to offer some professional advice and guidance on if there are tweaks that could be made to the work plan, we can do number one. . In its own on its own. I would suggest the converse is not true. We can't do 23 or four without number one, but we could do number one alone. . Based on the existing work plan, Okay? So what's Let's Let's take care of number one, then okay, which is not getting into the specifics of those other three. It's just the overall work plan aligned to it. And then if 23 and four aligned, then it then we can capture that

in it. . Okay, So, um, does anyone want to comment on the number one before I call the vote? ? No. Okay, I'll call the votes anyone against number one. . That's unanimous. Thank you. Okay, um, I'm gonna go back to clerks because it just happens to be about the noise by law. And that's I think Donna's Madonna Genesis. . I wanted to speak to that. Okay, perfect timing, , then. . All right, Donna, it's Mayor Guthrie just want to know if you can hear me this time. . Time. Perfect. Yep. Perfectly God. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. That was weird. Okay. Thanks So much for for. Yeah, thanks. So much for for making time for this tonight. Um, I'm here as a member of no more noise wealth to express support for councillor dollars motion regarding the noise bylaw. Apologies to focus on the growth, Police Services board or the community as a whole. This delegation is going to sound eerily familiar. . Some parts are the same. . So apologize for repeating myself, but The message bears repeating. Nonetheless, excessive noise is the new secondhand smoke. It's on the rise,

and it's one of the top two environmental hazards to both physical and mental health and well being second only to air pollution. The vast majority of urban noise pollution is caused by traffic specifically vehicles with extreme engines altered mufflers. . And loud motorbikes and pick ups, and this kind of pollution cannot be dismissed as a trivial complaint or an occasional nuisance issue. Studies clearly show that noise pollution, especially intermittent spikes. That breakthrough background sounds is a pair is a serious public health issue and loud noise triggers fight or flight response in our bodies, which causes a cascade of reactions beyond our control, including the recent stress hormones and increase in heart rate and Blood pressure and inflammation. Which over time lead to heart disease, hypertension, insomnia, diabetes, and much more. Experts agree. Our bodies do not adapt to noise. Our bodies are always listening and processing sound. Even when we're asleep as the city grows and intensifies development on Main court, or is this public health problem will only increase. .

So last month for community members, including myself, delegated on this issue at the Growth Police Services Board meeting, And on Thursday, July 20th staff Sergeant Michael Davis prevent presented a report in response. And they noted in this report, among other things, that the growth police service recognizes the problem of noisy vehicles. . That concerns about vehicle noise align with two of their corporate values. That vehicle noise is one issue among many competing priorities, and that staffing in the traffic division is not keeping up with the demands of a growing city. . In 2022. There were approximately 295 shifts when only one traffic unit officer was on duty. . And 57 shifts when there was no traffic unit member working There was no reference to follow up or problem solving. So we're left with assume that the current police budget does not provide for an adequately staffed traffic division for a city of our size. . Traffic specific violations are not a high priority and low

enforcement levels of either speeding or noise. . Are not being addressed and will not be addressed. So hearing wealth the possibility of being caught a powerful deterrent to breaking the law is very low and sometimes not non existent, , and drivers know it. . So we would like the city to explore the use of noise cameras as a possible solution. The roughly $200,000 yearly cost of just one new officer could be used to deploy safe for 26 Mobile Noise camera unit, , they would provide 24 7 coverage. . And with appropriately increased fines over time, there could be a small revenue stream here in golf. A driver of the noisy vehicle was recently fined $110 by comparison, in February of this year's finds in Edmonton for first time offenders were raised to $1000. And this is also the case in New York City. . So we're asking City Council and staff. Please take action to protect the health and well being of the thousands of residents like myself and other members of our

group who live on or near busy corridors and intersections. As one of our members mentioned recently when summer comes around, , spending time in one's yard, , or Throwing open your windows and a lovely evening should be enjoyable and not as stress or anger inducing activity. If you could please help by bringing the noise Law Review Review forward from 2025 into this year's review, scheduled period, conduct an in depth review of noise camera technology as a potential solution and advocate as required along with the city of Toronto and other municipalities. . For the necessary legislation. Legislative changes at the provincial level to allow the city to enforce noise standards and the highway traffic act. Using noise cameras, as they already do with red light and speed cameras are other recommendations include committing to reviewing the noise by lot every year for this very reason. . Launching a public education. Donna, It's America three. I'm so sorry to interrupt, but it's It's over the five minutes there and I'm so sorry. I gotta stop you, but let's stay. No, no, no, no, no problem.

Just stay with us, though. Just in case there's a follow up to your to your delegation Councilor caller has a follow up. . Okay. Thanks. Hello, Miss Johnson. Thank you for your presentation at the onset. You mentioned that you were with a group called No more noise wealth. Could you tell me a little bit about the group and how many people are working with you on this? ? So far we have about 20 people in our group and we have a sister organization in Tehran toe. You know, more noise Toronto, which is headed up by, um Ingrid Buday. And just if I could just say that This. This kind of worked like as as a as a concerned citizen, bringing these issues forward doing the research doing the outreach. . Um, making connections and contact building. Our group is it's It takes a tremendous amount of time and energy. I know for a fact that if I was to devote more time to this, and that's asking a lot at this point, I know that I could grow a membership. I don't think there's anyone that you would talk to in this city.

Who wouldn't acknowledge that this is a problem. . That loud, noisy vehicles revving down our city streets, , day and night. . Especially motorbikes is a serious problem, So our membership is low right now. But, um again if I had the time and resources I know we could grow it. . Thank you very much considerably. Thanks to you, Puerto Rico. . Thank you. All right, Um, thank you very much. And, uh, question for the delegate. . Councilor work. Guthrie through you to Miss Jennison. Thanks very much for bringing this to our attention. . I'm trying to understand how the noise camera so they're not currently legal in Ontario. . But if they were, um I live actually sort of an intersection where there's article, Victoria's and Gordon not too far. . So we currently only have six red light cameras and four automated speed enforcement cameras, So I'm I'm trying to get my head around How noise cameras Could be effective because if we put one on one

street, then they're just gonna zip up the other street and that the noise will travel. So I'm just trying to get my head around that and I'm wondering what your group thinks about that or um or what your research shows about that because it's about noise right that will travel. . Yeah, well, it's it's about catching the noise at a certain point, um and at a certain level So so the decibel meter would be set. You know, whatever Whatever research whatever legislation allows, and that's a big discussion. Right? There is what the decibel level going to be, but they would be deployed and they would be moved around. . So they would be there might be like, like one city piloted one stationary and five mobile units, so they're moved around to capture. . Offenders all over the city. Okay, and whether they're deployed at intersections or not. I'm not sure it's a very new technology. It's still in the, um sort of in the piloting stages. . So, , um

Yeah, I think there's there's a lot to be found out about like from Edmonton, For example, Edmonton is a leader in this area in New York City, of course, is I think the only city who's actually has them deployed and they're issuing fines. . Using the noise cameras. So America through If I could just follow up then through you to miss Jennison, , so Um, appreciate that, given that they're not legal in Ontario under the Highway Traffic Act. . Is it reasonable for counsel to explore the noise cameras really only after they are a technology that's deployed in Ontario. . Um, I'm just thinking about effective use of our staff time. So would that be satisfactory groups? Obviously, you know, it's on the agenda. It's on the actual radar. . Um But when we're just being cognizant of what the workloads look like Yes. Well, that's why I think it's important for them to as they must have. Someone must have done to advocate for the use of red light and speed cameras, speed radar systems. Somebody did

the work there. Um, I know the city of Toronto is has applied to the Ministry of Transportation, uh, to amend legislation to enable the use of noise, , cameras, , wealth and other ministers. . Pallet ease were to come forward in support of that, which is what I asked in my delegation. I think it that it may have an effect and it may open the door to this kind of, um This kind of the use of this kind of tool, and I despair of not doing anything about this because the police have They aren't able to deal with it and and and and residents are paying the price. So you know, I think the city has an obligation to step up and at least ask some basic questions of the MPO. . Like, make way for this technology. And if not, why not? And let's get a good answer. Okay. Appreciate your response. Thanks very much, , Hmm. . See No further questions, Donna, thanks again and have a have a great night. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Good night. Take care. .

Alright, It's it's back to us again. We're focusing our questions on just This noise issue and the noise bylaw issue. To start with Councilor Ault. And then Keeton. Thank you very much taller. Okay. Thank you very much, Mr Guthrie. I am tremendously sympathetic to the concerns of the delegate. I think we do need to acknowledge that noises pollution. Just ask our moms when we listen to everyone from Elvis to Atlantis and beyond that, when they used to say, turn that noise down that that that is indeed the case. However, I also recognize that we are in a challenge on this and therefore I would like to move an amendment by substance. . ITU shin this coming from the mayor, and I think it's a great proposal. .

No problem. Sorry for those, uh, watching on TV. We had a technical difficulty Amendment by substitution to read that council direct staff to report back to Council for further consideration when noise enforcement cameras become available in the province of Ontario. I'm looking for a secondary Seconded by councilor re trusted or I'm sorry. Who did you say, councillor? Okay, Richardson. Okay, , perfect. . All right. Thank you and councillor Goler. I think you had an amendment to add to this one. Go ahead. Yes, yes, your worship And as as that gets pulled up, I wanted to speak to the to the to the amendment. Um, my concern with the wording of that amendment is that we need to proactively advocate for this at the provincial level. Um, Right now we know that it's happening in Alberta. It's it's the city of Edmonton is doing it successfully. . But unless municipalities in Ontario actively say we want this same legislative, um our ability to be brought here to Ontario, we need to actively advocate for that. .

To that end, I am moving the amendment that I just send the clerks. Um and it says, and that council director, mayor and staff to advocate for noise Boko via Google Camera technology to be legislated in Ontario when Opportunities arise. Great. Thank you. So councillor, although second, that too on the advocacy piece is there any questions on just the advocacy piece? I wouldn't mind just calling the vote on that. . I think It looks like I can going to call the vote on just to a councillor caller tabled there as the amendment to to the substitution there so as anyone against that Nobody. That's unanimous. Thank you. So coming back to the main motion now, um as tabled and as amended. Is there anything further on that councillor caller? Thank you for your worship. So the June 9th report indicated that the noise control bylaw would be reviewed in 2025. . Just for clarity with the motion that is being now put forward. Perhaps if we could ask the clerk to put the whole thing on the on the on the screen. I just wanted to see how this may or may not impact the timing of the noise

Bylaw review happening in 2025 and what may be considered as part of that review or not considered. . Through the mayor. If I can just clarify it is simply scheduled B of the noise bylaw that is in the current work plan, which is the map. The entire noise by a lot is not scheduled for review in 2025. . So I think my interpretation or our interpretation is that if this motion were to pass, we would then come back and report back once the noise cameras are legal, and we would report back to you on how that impact how that would impact the work plan that has no bearing on the review Rivet revisiting of the map as scheduled in 2025. . And and as a follow up to that the additional wording that American staff advocate for noise vehicle camera technology to be legislated Ontario. Um how? How might that play out what it be that whenever we go to M O. It's something that we bring to the table, or, you know, at what opportunities does the city of growth have an impact input into the minister of Transportation of Ontario? ? So through the marriage councillor. Dollar this, Um, Miss Sales is here in the audience. Um,

And so she didn't know this was coming, so probably isn't prepared to speak to it, but she's coming down. . So I'm going to let her talk. Just just as Jodi comes down if I could just jump in because it is as opportunities arise. I am actually happy to, um like email back to council just to say if I do happen to run into the minister at Imo, where if I do have a delegation or if I'm talking to somebody in the upper level of government. . Um And I broach this conversation. I will absolutely tell council. Hey, I just I just did this that way. You know that the advocacy has occurred, but Jody from intergovernmental and such can jump in on the staff side. So through you, Mr Mayor, you know again, I'll just offer words of caution to these things. We obviously have to prioritize what we want to discuss with Mary at various ministers. We don't always get an audience with them. . But is this our top priority? So I think as a group that is going to a mall can be on that list. And I think again, it has to have some discussion. . You know, they might ask us. Well, why do you want it? ? And and then are we the right advocates for it? If we're like, know what? We don't really want it. We want it when it arrives If you wanted

That's not great advocacy, So I think there's got to be some thought to this as well, that it just we just can't we can do it. . Then we've got to Is this the thing we want with the Minister of transportation? So if that's we want, Mr Mulroney to deal with it. That's the glue off. Ask. So is that a higher priority than ask that Iraq play with the M O delegations? I think that should be a bit of a discussion. . To be had as well. Um, because you know how it Mr Mary. You especially know how it works because you've been going to all of these. There is a limited time before the knock on the door happens so again. If this is our number one priority, we can deliver that on behalf of council. . But if you would give some consideration to other things, If we have an audience with that, minister, it may not be the number one priority, And I think that's a fair piece for you to also contemplate. . As you put this on the plane, it could be a discussion with the delegation. . Council delegation that's gone in there and and two weeks Yeah, that That's fair. I I'll be honest with you. I wasn't gonna lead with. Hey, we got a noise camera problem, but but at the same time, you know I have lots of discussions. Are you run into somebody, but you know, it's there's there's opportunities that might arise as the motion state Embassy has already passed, , by the way. .

So, uh, Jody, did you want to pipe in or ditto? ? Okay. . Ditto But fair enough as the delegation gets ready to go, and we got to make sure it's aligned to our intergovernmental plan as well. That's also a council approved policy, too. So, um, the point the point of this is that it's not being ignored. I think that's the overall point. Okay, so it's it's a gesture. It's a gesture to not only the delegate and not only those, you know, , maybe 20 people. . But let's be honest. There's probably several. There's more than 20 people that are upset about it, including this guy, So you know it is an issue. This is a nice I think appropriate gesture from council to say We recognize what you're saying there is a problem opportunities arise to address it to the upper level of government will do that. We'll figure out the process wise, , but I think I think it's a nice gesture back to the community to say we've heard you. . No pun intended. Um I'm just gonna go back to the person who has the floor, which is councillor caller, and I did see cancer. Keeton, Hand up earlier. Cancer. Keaton. Did you still want to pipe in on this one as well? I just wanted Yes. Yes or no? ? No. . All my things were handled. . Okay. So after councillor Gore of cancer, Okay,

thank you Worship. I will be voting against the alternate, uh, wording for this motion because this does not get us to staff reviewing the noise control bylaw and exploring opportunities on how we can bring noise control cameras. . I think that by moving to an advocacy only approach we lose the opportunity to see how this could work in wealth and we lose the prioritization because at this point what I just heard is that then discourse at the bottom of the list of asks and that there will not be be prioritized. So I will ask my council colleagues to support the original wording of the motion, which is to include an exploration of noise control. . All cameras, vehicle noise cameras as part of the noise controlled by law review that is happening. Um so okay. . Thank you. . I just want to be really clear. Because I just I don't I don't want to say that. What you're saying is wrong at all. It's trying to help. . The original motion as the substitution from councilor old literally says when they are available in Ontario. Common tell

us That could happen in a week. That could happen in you know, in a year we don't know what but whenever that happens. . Staff are required to come and tell us And then on top of that we are going to be doing advocacy work as the opportunities arise. . So just help you I'm hearing you say, Don't vote for that. I don't understand why you wouldn't vote for that. It's your It's your decision. But I understand why you wouldn't vote for that, when the very information that we're requesting from staff could come back before the review where we could then give further directions staff to implement it. . Even before the noise by law review. So I don't know. And I'm sorry. I don't mean to. I'm not trying to counter. I just want to make sure that everyone is clear because I saw a lot of people not not quite understanding why you wouldn't want to vote for us to give direction to staff. I just want to make sure you understood. That's all. Thank, thank you worship and my rationale. This morning we received that an update from staff. Listeners know that there was a conversation with different municipalities and the city of Toronto was the only one that identified this as a priority and no one else was on the table, said this is a priority for us, and we don't so my My My concern is that

The way that this motion on the floor is worded. . It does not become Um, something that the city will actually advocate for the other motion that would have us give direction for staff to explore and see what would be needed to bring vehicle controlled by last I expect the response will be something like this needs to be legislated. And then at that point we can give direction knowing fully what can happen. It could be that the After the staff review they could say, Well, actually, , we can have vehicle noise cameras. . And bylaw officers could be the ones enforcing this before we have Direction from the province so it actually gives More room for an exploration. I think that this eliminates any exploration at this point and puts us on a wait and see basis. So that is my concern. . Um yeah. . Yeah. Yeah, I would just like active exploration of what it would take rather than sitting back and waiting for it to happen. . Okay? No problem. Uh, councillor, and then I like to call the vote on the Thank you very much. Mary America three. I appreciate your comments that you had said earlier. I will correct one thing. I think this is more than

a gesture. I don't want anybody to believe it is just a gesture. I think this is something that's very, very important. The reason that I moved it there is that I believe that it actually is tangible in the sense that it's moving. It's as forward I could ask staff right now whether we can actually make anything concrete of the original motion. . The answer would be clearly no. I think what we need to recognize is that wealth is in the forefront of this, and we need to take credit from what actually was proposed in the amendment that that I put forward. It's like what we did was smoking here about 35 years ago, when smoking was not considered something that communities could do. We have taken a big step here. It's not a gesture. It's recognizing noise as a real concern and recognizing that our job now Is to move the province along in a fashion that is appropriate. . I want to recognize that in many respects, people say this is not a police issue and in some senses, I tend to agree with them. I think there are other issues that we want the police to deal with. But I also recognize that if the technology right now is lacking, or is wanting that we're sending staff off on something futile, and

I also want to recognize that chemo is not our only avenue. There are many other opportunities through miss sales and through staff that you precisely what counts. . Alert dollars amendments suggested I'm not just waiting for a mo. I'm talking about moving this forward and being leaders in this and I think our community will take a great deal of faith in that knowing full well. . That while the technology isn't there, now we're going to act upon that when the technology arrives. . Okay? I would like, just have a point of personal privilege for a second. . It felt a little bit like you were dismissing. When I said the word gesture and not okay, you can have a lot of gestures in good faith. . And that's what I meant by that, So I just don't want my wording to be misinterpreted by yourself or others. . When I was saying that I was Giving a gesture because I felt it was important of importance. Okay, So in other words, we're singing from the same song sheet. I just didn't want it to be left out there that I was not saying it in a positive way and in a meaningful way and in good faith. Absolutely. That's right. That's why I took it. I was

more concerned that people heard just the word gesture. They would think it's just a gesture, like waving at somebody. . Yep. . Or other fingers? Yeah, alright. Uh, did you have a comment, councillor or work? And then I'll call the vote. Thank you, Mark Guthrie. . So, , just a comment that Golf Police can enforce currently very loud mufflers. If people know of one or know where it happens frequently they can use the Gulf Police online reporting tool. . The Gulf Police do a muffler may so it's not like there's there's no recourse at all. So obviously nobody likes it. When you're you're sitting in your front yard or backyard, and you hear a loud muffler, , somebody racing. . Nobody likes that, , Um But there are some immediate remedies. There are some potential future remedies. . Um, but I take the point around prior type prioritization. I really do. I mean, we have a strap plan and we need to be looking at you know, we said Vision zero, So I see the noise cameras, , potentially As part of that vision zero Because if you're making that much noise, , you're probably going too fast. . Right, so

So I I do. Take the prioritization point. Seriously. There's only so much staff time we know intergovernmental has had 40 consultations this year on really fundamental things. So I think there are things we can do for advocacy in conversation. Um, but I do think that has to be in proportion with the other priorities and strap plan. . Counselor. Thank you Worship just 0.2 points of clarification to councillor. All the technology is here. We just need the legislative framework. But other municipalities Edmonton, New York are doing this and issuing tickets so that the technology is here. And if we wanted to, we could. We could be be doing more to counsel. Our works point police can, but during muffler made they gave serial violations. There were no tickets issued because It is not a priority for police and and in fairness, they have lots of things to work on. But just because they're able to they're not doing it. So so I My request is that we do something a little more proactive to to ease that responsibility from police services that have their hands full with

other issues, so that then we can look for the technology sooner than as soon as possible. . Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'd really like to call the vote, so I am calling the vote. . On the amendment. Of the amendment. And then I have to call the vote like the main Amendment as the substitution. So I am about to call the vote then that we've already called the vote on the advocacy piece, and now we are calling the vote on the that main portion. That was added. Okay. So is anyone against that. . Okay. So only councillor caller, so that passes And now I am calling the vote. As As for the amendment of this as a substitution, I have to do it one more time. Okay, So it's the same thing that you just saw on the screen as anyone against that. . And again only councillor dollars against that, so that passes All right. Thank you. All right, let's keep moving along outdoor recreational fire burning bylaw. . Smokeless recreational wood burning fires. Alright, that's already been moved.

Uh, and second it, So does anyone have any thing to do with with okay, Counselor? Downer. Go ahead. I don't support reviewing this. I think the band needs to stay in place. We've got a forest fire smoke happening in southern Ontario now, and, um there's a lot of people who have Sensitivities to this. Not only that's. It's unpleasant for a lot of neighborhoods. So, um, I'm quite happy with the band that we currently have. Okay. Thank you. Anything else or work? Then I'll go to our Gahler and then ALTs. . All through America. Three. I'd like to ask our staff with their position is on revocation of that ban and any concerns they are the fire chief would have America through to cancel her work. Yes, so certainly since the first meeting, staff had an opportunity to meet and discuss it further and there are risks both in terms of the actual air quality related to smoke. But even with smokeless wood burning appliances, there are still considerable risk associated with the flammability. So we've talked to have talked to our current acting fire chiefs, But I've also spoken to our incoming fire chief. . He unfortunately doesn't start until Monday. .

Um, And so I couldn't get that documented for you tonight or in writing. But I verbally spoke with him and got his permission to share with you that he will not give his support for any change in the bylaw. That doesn't mean that you can't do it as the fire chief. He ultimately still holds authority if he feels that there is an unsafe situation under the Fire Prevention and Protection Act, But he does not support a change in in our bylaw. Um, and so he would convey that if he had Hearted with us, but I did get his permission to share that with you this evening. . Chris. Thank you. That's good for you. Counselor work, Then you have a follow up. Okay, go ahead just to comment. Mayor Guthrie, then if we know that the fire chief is not going to support a different outcome, then it's not a good use of staff. Time to go through the motions of of looking at whether we could or not, and options in coming back to council time, so in in the interest, , really, , of sort of reasonability. . I won't support the motion. Thank you. I'm going to go to go lower than old. Thank you Worship my perspective on this. It's harm reduction approach. We know that fires are happening and because by law operates on a complaint basis if the neighbors

are not complaining than neighborhoods kind of have backyard fires. . Um And I think that having clear guidelines on how to do it properly, how to do it safely, how to minimize smoke is a benefit to the community. And that's why I will be, um, supporting this motion. Thank you. Thank you and alter. Thank you very much, Mr Guthrie. I was originally supportive of the bylaw, but I will not be supporting it, , And it's the It's the summer air that has made me realize that in fact, we need to be progressive on this front, in many respects were progressive in climate change activities, encouraging people to make their houses more energy efficient, or we're encouraging people to reduce their carbon based fuels. As much as I like a roasted marshmallow. I need to recognize that there is a there is a health hazard. It is not just fires burning down people's houses. It's smoke as well. . Thank you. Just for clarity. Are you allowed to do a roasted marshmallow? Have they think you're allowed to have an open flame

fire with a grill on it? Uh, um. . And as long as you're cooking like cooking Uh, I just wanna make sure No. Um, And that's good to know that no mark no marshmallows for councillor role. So no, um, outdoor cooking devices that are solely and and the way that the, uh, the fire code reads is that it has to be a size proportional to what you're cooking. And so it's a common misnomer that you can have a very large raging outdoor fire roasting a single marshmallow, And that is not the case. Um and so outdoor cooking is only permitted under certain circumstances, , but it has to be proposed. . Portion of the size of what you are cooking and on the device that you're cooking on. So again. I don't want to speak for the fire chief for our current fire chiefs because they're not here this evening, But it isn't that sort of common belief that You know, if you throw a single hot dog on you can have a full bonfire in your backyard is not correct. Thank you, however, a propane Sourced, though, uh, like the little tables of the little propane that is allowed absolutely propane fueled devices are permitted. Um, And the reason for that is because they can be extinguished so quickly by simply cutting off the propane source. Um, and

that is why they are permitted and wood burning devices are not okay. . Okay, I see nothing further. So I'm going to call the vote on this. Based on that that information. So is anyone remember? I'm going to ask here. Is anyone against that means you're against having this actually reviewed okay, so I'll call the vote. Is anyone against please raise your hand? ? Okay, so that is Everyone except for Gibson and chew and collar. So that fails, okay? Thank you very much, and we'll move on then to the fireworks. . So the staff report back by October 2023 and the proposed timeline for changes to the work plan or facilitated full engagement process. . On the deployment use in sale fireworks within the city of 12. Does anyone have any questions on this one? ? No. Okay. Oh, sorry. Did you want to do you have a comment or question? Comment? Okay, go ahead, saying I support

this. I got a lot of complaints about the misuse of fireworks in neighborhoods and maybe whether we tighten that up, or we banned that in neighborhoods. Whether I know a lot of communities have started to go with your own light shows instead of fireworks, So by the time we get around this I It's something I'd like to hear a bit more from from about the community, so I would like to see what the process would be to to explore the fireworks. . It has. . Some, You know, environmental implications as well when we do fireworks, , and it's about Sort of progressing and evolving as well. Thank you and to kind of the originator of this council color Did you want to say something before the vote? Thank you worship just to echo councillor. Downer's comments I hear from my constituents regularly and not just on the days when fireworks are allowed. But the week before the week after So here where we say that the sale and use I think that's important part so that we can take our responsible approach to this and explore if wants to continue selling fireworks or Not and exploring that alternate technologies that don't cost allowed banks, But we can still get light shows in this day and age. . Q All right. Thank you.

Um, okay, so I'll just call the vote. The call the vote on that, then is anyone against that one. . No one's. That's unanimous on that one. So thank you very much. . Thank you. . And just looking at the clerks. I think that's taken care of that entire section. Am I right? ? Okay? Council. Do you mind if I just jump back to the e scooter thing for a sec? I'm only just trying to respect okay? Yeah. I just want to respect our bylaw staff that are here. That would answer any questions if need be, So I think there's no delegations. I think we could probably take care of this pretty quickly. Okay, So the only thing with the E scooter bylaw is it has to be tabled here with a little. There was an administrative, um, error on the date because the bylaw the In the memo stated August 1st by accident, but the bylaws are actually set up for us for an approval for the July 25th So, councillor caller, you're going to table the memo suggested from, uh, staff, and it has our clerks have corrected the July 25th date, , Okay? ? So it's moved by yourself seconded by. I think Councilor Bruce until said. . Yep. .

And is there anything on this then? Any questions? ? No, quite Oh, Comment. Okay, I will. No questions, then. Okay. Comment. Go ahead. Thank you Worship. I wanted to thank that for their work on this. We ask for something with a cook Quick turnaround time and then based on delegations. At the beginning of the month, we asked more changes. So I really appreciate the time that you have taken to review this and to consider, including the multi use paths and cycling tracks. Thank you very much. . America. Guthrie, can I just Respond for one moment, of course council collar, which is simply to say that I do want to give credit to Doug Godfrey into Dustin Gronkjaer sitting to my right who did the bulk of the work on this, But I do also want to acknowledge staff in jeans area within I D and then a huge shout out to our staff and our legal department because they turned to the bylaw around quicker than we normally ask them to do, and they just wanted to make sure that they also got that recognition. . Thank you so much. Alright, I'll call the vote then is anyone against against the the Easterners? ? Nobody. Okay, so that's unanimous and Aren't you Glad I did that first for you. So you guys can go home. Okay. Thank you for your time. . Appreciate it. . Okay. I think we are at the end here.

. And so it is the last one. And it is in regards to the home for good campaign specifically for around supportive housing. . Ah! Well, let me go to councillor. Let me let me get this just to do it right. Let me get tabled first, and then I can maybe do a preamble this for a second if that's fair to start us off. . Um or did sorry Some people are saying they just want to break for a second. . You want to Yeah. Do you want a five minute break? Yeah. Let's do that a five minute break, and then we'll come back. Uh, eight fifth at 8. 15, I think is what I have. . So that's like a seven minute break. Yeah, let's just start at 8 15. Okay? And, uh And then that way. This is the last item and then we're good to go. Okay. So take a seven minute break. We'll see you back here in just a few moments. .

32nd warning.

Okay. How are we? Clerks for? Are we good to go? Okay.

Okay, So what we'll do is we'll call call the Beanie back to order. Thank you very much. . And I think what I'll do is I'll just ask for the motion to be at least tabled. . Put up on the screen, at least for council to consider. . And, um, I was told in advance that councillor Gahler and councillor Clawson would be willing to move in second. . What's in front of us as a starting point here, I will read it out loud. And then if you just don't mind. I appreciate you tabling it for me. I'll give a little preamble. But that in alignment with the building our future pillar of the strategic plan staff be directed to partner with the home for good campaign to the satisfaction of the deputy CIA of corporate services to leverage up to 500,000 from the affordable Housing Reserve for a matching funds program. . Alongside the home for good campaign with the start date of August 1st 2023 and End date of March 31st 2024 and that the city's contribution be front ended with the requirement for any matching funds not realized by March 31st 2024 to be paid back to the city by May, 31st 2024 and that staff report back in June 2024 on the results of the city's contribution to the campaign through 2022 to 2024. .

Informing City Council of the Outcomes Lessons learned or other relevant information. Okay, so thank you for that. Um, let me read that. So my preamble is this. We have three supportive housing projects that are looking to open this year, totaling about 72 units. . This city should be completely proud of that. Okay, That is awesome. There has been financial obligations. Uh, presented to each of these projects through multiple different funders. One of the funders is the home for good campaign, and that campaign is specifically set up. . As A campaign to directly help with supportive housing in the city of wealth. . They, too have obligations, just like other funders, and I was made aware that there is there's some struggles in regards to getting some things together in regards to that those obligations And in speaking with The campaign members and also with the specific project,

which is kindle. Um, there there was. It was made known to me that, uh, they're against having some struggles and trying to get things to the finish line if I could call it that, and so I felt like the success of the previous matching campaign. . Was what was a success. And I believe that Don't quote me. I think I saw about $539,000 was raised because of the matching $500,000 that we were able to do last year. . So I'm looking at a. I'm looking at this campaign, this group that has a track record of being able to fulfill to fulfill their obligations in regards to raising funds for supportive housing through that matching campaign. . And I will just acknowledge I wanted, you know, Praise where praise is is warranted here. Counselor Caller at budget Time made the case to all of us actually to say, Well, we We should probably keep that $500,000 for affordable housing supportive housing in that reserve. . Ah! Uh and

You know Council agreed to that which is was great. . So that $500,000 is just sitting there. Just want to be really clear. It's just It's just sitting there since January, the first that $500,000 has just been sitting there. . It's doing nothing. . And, uh, it is a $500,000 that's already sitting there earmarked for such projects as what we're just talking about right now. . And, uh, so I thought to myself well, , If we have Home for good campaign already. Show us that they can turn $500,000 into a million dollars for supportive housing. Why don't we do it again? ? And then, of course, there was a time crunch and I've talked to all of council about this like this is our last meeting before September, and there's obligations that need to be made prior to that. . So I tried to reach out to everyone as much as possible and lay it out as quick as clearly as I could. I thought this little preamble was at least good enough for everyone to try to understand where things are coming from. . And I would say this just before we dive into this, like one of the best things about this team here. . As we we? We are all supportive of supportive housing. Okay, we come at it from maybe a little different angles or things like that. But

like we're gonna figure this out, I know I know where I feel very confident and positive about that. Um, my idea is the one that I think is great. But, hey, we're we're a team. I'm not always the smartest one in the room, so I'm very willing to hear what others have to say. . In trying to figure this out. Uh, I think this is the best course of action but very open to having a respectful dialogue on what we can do here around trying to house the homeless before, especially specifically before the winter, right. So with that I leave it up to to you, my colleagues and I just wanted to say that I would like to have a quick motion, , though. . Um I sorry to the clerks. I was good at just ask counsel for a motion to allow people to answer any questions and answers, But we have the other motion on the floor right now. . Um how? How would you like me to do that? Would you like me to withdraw the other motion? ? Then? ? Is that the simplest way? ? Or can I just ask counsel as the chair? Can I just make the decision without having to ask for the motion on the floor? Mr. Mary gives context for the discussion and as chair you You have the authority of sort of make that ruining.

Suppose if you're talking wishes to challenge that they all right, All right. Sorry. I was trying to go the correct way there, but I kind of messed up a little bit there. But so if if you guys challenge me on it, then I then So be it. Um, if you if it's okay with council, Daria is here Who is the exactly? She's available online on camera. She's available for questions. . Ah and and answers and Glenna is here. And Chris is here from the home for good campaign again available for any questions and answers not as delegates. But just here. If there's any kind of questions, I'm gonna allow them as the chair to be available if there's any answers that need to be forthcoming. . Everyone Okay with that. Looks like we're looks like we're good. Okay, So thank you. I'll turn it over to my colleagues and we'll start from from there. If there's any questions for staff and or our guests. . Councilor booted toe Thank you. So first, I want to thank everyone as a new councillor and new to this process. I think I bring some fresh eyes and I'm not gonna lie. I spent the entire weekend researching trying to get a handle on how things came to

be, and I want to thank the staff as well for helping me understand kind of the two sides of the house. I'm going to call the grant versus the you know, gift to to the fundraising campaign. . And so for me, I just wanted to if you could for me make sure that the chronology I have written out and all my papers is correct. So you know, the one side of the House of chronology is we recognize and we've given authority to the county for housing for an RFP process and we put aside the Housing Reserve fund. . And the county and I've read all the materials as well. Very busy weekend that they, uh, granted and provided the recommendation council can choose what to do So on that side of the house is the grant to kindle for $1,000,364.50 dollars. I believe if you can just kind of Just help me that is a grant. Yes, through the Merit Council Abusive hills. So for money coming out of the affordable Housing Reserve a council a few years ago made the decision to ask

the county of Wellington In addition to their role as R. C. M S M to provide their expertise and advice on the issuing of our FPs when we had money in the affordable Housing reserve to be spent, um and so the county of Wellington staff issue the RFP on our behalf. . They received the applications in the vet them. We have a staff member, Miss Dan Evans sits on that review panel with County staff and then that collective group makes a recommendation back to you as counsel regarding funding out of the affordable Housing reserve. So in the first round under that RFP process funding was recommended to the Wyndham House project Bellevue and to the stepping stone project Grace Gardens, So that was the first to that were recommended. And then subsequently in the next round that next, , RFP The recommendation was to fund kindle in the amount of just over $1.3 million. That is through a grant program that the city provides. . Um, so that money, um The first installment flowed to kindle already at the start of the project. The second installment, There are 50% completion, So the second installment is actually in process of being processed this week. Um and so that is that Grant

Program and we previously as you have indicated, um, have had the county willing to put that RFP out for us. That doesn't mean that is the only option. US Council have the option. And last year their decision was made by counsel to spend two to contribute $500,000. And I think you're you know, use of the word. I mean gift. It's to a donor campaign. In essence that's being run through the homes for good campaign that is entirely separate. . Right from the grant that it didn't change anything about the grant that we were giving to kindle. . It was entirely separate. When Kindle applied through on the RFP process, they would have indicated on their application all of their funding sources and included in that would have been money from our donation campaign. And that's not uncommon. That donation campaign is being run through the homes for good campaign, and I think that's where some of maybe the confusion early on in this came along because those are very, very separate streams of funding to kindle. . Um, And so certainly it is the intention moving forward that we will continue to use the county of Wellington to issue our FPs for future affordable housing fund.

Um, dispersement disbursements, As the mayor is, has said in his correct we had not yet entered into an RFP process in 2023, partly because of Everything else going on in the world of housing, and we were kind of waiting to get completed through the summer. We weren't aware of a project sort of waiting in the wings ready to go, and I will also say that we have historically sometimes let the fund get a bit bigger, so that then the amount that we can give out would be greater. So in conversation with the county staff, we had not yet been in a position to recommend issuing an RFP because some of the thinking had been that perhaps we wait until 2024 and have that fund build up to in theory. . Eerie. A million. Again. Not being presumptuous Council has traditionally put a half million dollars a year in so I know that was kind of a long and rambling answer. Hopefully, , that answered the question. . Yes, Thank you. And through through the mayor at the first part is I think you answered. It is a question on whether or not the staff in evaluating the RFP process and the relationship with the county. If there are any concerns about this, that there are considerations not being considered or things like that. And also for me to better understand that

that RFP process is a legal process with an agreement and timelines and all those kinds of things. . Um, so through the merit a councillor tell our agreement with the county of Wellington. I would call it a service level agreement that we went entered into with the county of Wellington. And so there isn't anything binding. We're not obligated to always issue the RFP through the county of Wellington. It was just direction from council that that was the best approach because we have staff don't have the expertise. But there is nothing that could preclude you from directing us not to enter into the RFP process, and it wouldn't change anything about our relationship. . The county of Wellington. They're kind of doing it over and above their work with us as the CM sm, because we asked for that, um, that that support City staff are still involved in that process. And then the other thing that I just want to highlight is the funding decisions still rests with council. So through those two RFP processes, the county of Wellington simply sent you a report making a recommendation which you can take or leave. So they ultimate decision on how the money out of the affordable Housing Reserve gets spent is always He's still resting with counsel and you have to vote on that. And so if we're talking specifically to

the kindle example, the county of Wellington evaluated the RFP with assistance from city staff. The recommendation came back to counsel and then you voted to take the recommendation. You could have sent it back and said no go back out to RFP again, and so counsel maintains full control over the final disbursement of the funds out of the affordable Housing reserve. . Um And so, with the case of the Kindle that funding was approved, we then enter into a contribution agreement directly with kindle. The money does not flow through the county. The money flows directly between the city and kindle and the contribution agreement. The county is not a signatory or party to that funding agreement. It is a grant agreement between the city and the third party, which in this case is kindle and we have a legally binding contribution agreement with kindle. And at this point, there is nothing that has changed that. . Ocean agreement is still fully enforced, and we are still continuing to honor the terms of that agreement. . Thank you just for clarification. The terms of the agreement if you can give me the increments or what The steps are Sure through the American. Um, so the first installment of 50%, and this is consistent across all of the projects, not just to kindle. The first installment of 50% is paid out at the start

of the project. The next installment of 40% is paid out when the architecture general contractor can demonstrate that they're halfway through. That milestone was reached last week. So we are due to pay out the next 40%. And then the final 10% is not paid out until we have confirmed completion of the project and occupy occupant. . C permit has been issued and perhaps most importantly, an updated capital cost statement has been provided to the satisfaction of the city. So it's that last step that we have our opportunity to kind of evaluate the outcomes. . And so that in essence, , that 10% I'm not sure if this is the correct legal term. Scioli will correct me. But hold back in essence so that we know that the project is fully completed its open they have occupancy and all of the obligations have been met. So we do hold back that final 10% on all of our grant agreements. Thank you. So I just first of all want to compliment Council because I think the process of awarding funding from the affordable housing reserve. I spent a lot of time looking at the documents and the policies and the process and at the other end from the county I thought was very solid. . So kudos to counsel for that, because I thought that was very tight. Um, the last question that I had for you was Um, around the affordable housing reserve. And,

you know, I'm leaning towards leaving the money in the affordable housing reserve. And, you know, just because I believe there is more coming from the community, it is dessert. Do we have to spend it? Do we have to clean out our bank account? You know, by know December 31st, or is it something that can stay? I thought I heard you say it can stay and we can add to it for next year so that you know an RFP potentially in January, , 2024 whatever. . For might be for a larger amount. Is that correct? ? So through the mayor, it is totally at council's discretion. How much goes into that reserve and how fast it is spent out currently, the balances at just over $575,000. And so that is the 500 that was contributed. Coming out of the 2023 budget process, as well as a small balance that was remaining in previous years. Council has sometimes put extra money into the reserve, which is what enabled us to fund kindle in the amount of $1.3 million Um, And so it has ebbed and flowed. It has typically always been a minimum of $500,000 a year, at least in my time in this role, Um And so, just as comparison, Windham house, the grant to Windham house was $384,000 in the grant Grace Gardens was $884,000. So that kind

of gives you a bit of a sense that those two combined plus the 1.3 for kindle. We had a fairly sizable balance in the reserve and a lot of money was put in. . I I clerk may have to help me or the mayor, remember, I know there was one time where there was actually an extra million dollars put in at some point, and I'm going to draw a blank on the year. . Um Yeah, so that so there is nothing. There is nothing that requires counsel. Uh, we as staff. . The money is in that reserve and we Might have initiated RFP process this year. We had just opted not to. . Up until this point, And so we wouldn't ever issue an RFP process for beyond what's sitting in the reserve. But once it's in the reserve, then it's kind of over two staff to issue that RFP process if we believe that there are projects that are looking for that money Thank you very much for that. And you know, through the land, someone new coming through here, going through all the documents reading all the policies and all the letters and correspondence. I feel quite confident with the process on the left side of my ledger around the granting side of it, the RFP solid, extremely solid, and then I went back and I read all the minutes and the documentation on

the right side of my chart here, which is the homes for golf, and this is around the council process around that of how the recommendation came forward and so on. . On and and I have to say for myself my processes. I need to feel solid in my decision making. I need to see staff reports and analysis and so on. And so when I looked at that process, er there was a lot of conversation around. Um what would be included or not, including the $500,000 given and so on? I probably wouldn't have supported that. . I feel less. . Comfortable in the you know, lack of structure. And so that is my personal comfort. I am evidence based. I need data. I need finances. I need to know the governance. I know how decisions are made all of those kinds of things. I do not give money. I don't gamble. I don't. I just I can't. I don't feel secure about that. So when I looked at that the process on the right side of my my documents. . I felt very uncomfortable about that. And that uncomfortable is where I'm sitting right now. With this motion. I cannot in good faith. Um, uh, support it. I could support it if it's on the left side and that there's a formal,

transparent, fair, open communicated process where everyone has a fair opportunities to put their hand up and say, , Hey, , I wanna I want some money for for something as well. But I don't feel that And so I cannot support this. And I take very seriously my stewardship role. Um and I work in poverty. I've posted people you know, on the streets, you know, living in my home and and and talk to people who are living in backyard sheds and so on, So I'm very aware of this and the importance of this. . But I am also very concerned about how we go about this. Uh and and I really want to do this well, so you know, with with all due respect, I am deeply committed to the issue. But I cannot support this unless it's on the left side of my Chart here that goes through the county that has a transparent, , fair open process. . Thank you. Thank you. Uh, so I have lots of comments. . About what was just said there later. But councillor Clawson is next. . Yes, thank you. And through you married to

the folks from the home for good campaign. Thanks for being here. Um, I just want to start off by saying that we all agree that we're living in a housing crisis. Um, and that also the economic changes that have happened in the last three years. . Have thrown so many businesses, organizations, even our own city into many changes, And sometimes changes require, you know, quick decision making. And I just My question to the home for good campaign is just exactly how this $500,000 could accelerate the number of people who can go into the support of housing units. . How how much faster it could happen. . Um and and how will the funds be used to do that? ? Thank you for the question. Uh, we proved last year with councils generous support that we have the

capability to leverage funding and successfully raised $596,000 to match the $500,000 that was available for the city match. . So what? The opportunity that is in front of us. We have an urgent opportunity to meet our funding commitments to the kindle property. There are certain economic and situations that are impacting our current success that we do have rising concerns about our ability to meet those targets and ensure that the doors get opened this fall. . So this matching opportunity would help us engage the community and leverage that funding to meet the funding requirements ensure that the Kindle project is open and able to meet our full goal of housing 72 individuals this year in permanent supportive housing. . Mm. I think I think that answers. My question, Actually, Yeah. I really appreciate the

response. Maybe. Maybe just to clarify. Um, what potentially? Would it mean for the those 72 individuals If we pushed back from the fall? What? What? Where would they go? What would happen to them? ? 30. To clarify. Thank you, Kim. Um, housing. The 72 people brings them in from living rough, , living hard from Ah unsupported, um permanent supportive housing includes counseling and support 24 7. . Um, with the aim to improve their situation so that they can become self sufficient. Um, and ideally, not just have a roof over their head but have a more, , um, , fulfilling life. . Thank you. I really appreciate that. Um, we know, you know, I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't make this comment, But we know that there's so many people in our community right now who are suffering and and in this, you know

the difference a few months can make. You know I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I think it's significant. Um, and and so I will certainly be supporting it. . Um And I just I really am worried about you know, we heard about this last year as well. There's more and more people who are on housed and this is a perfect opportunity to make sure that this winter they they have a place to go. So thank you. . Thank you. Councilor Goler, isn't it? Thank you through worship to the representatives from the home for good campaign. . Um I wanted to ask why Why are you taking this on? Um, because whenever we've had conversations about this in council I hear from my colleagues say, Well, this is a provincial responsibility. The province should be responsible for building new social housing, new, supportive housing. So why is the United way and why our community organizations coming together to do this work? ? Instead of, say, the province. Simply put somebody has to Somebody has to address homelessness. Um A councillor. Once asked me

How much people should give And my answer is charities only exist. To close gaps when a federal, provincial, provincial, county or municipal government can't take care of everyone. . Somebody has to Address needs in the community, and we have started with the most vulnerable those that are on the street and looking to make sure that they have support and that they live to their full potential. . Um, I also will say that, um Well, I think we also took the project on and tackled it because Um Well, we have the absolute belief that somehow We will address the the campaign goal. To see these projects through Thank you. Thank you very much. And as a follow up, speaking to process, um this money was put into a fund and there was a process for for applications to be sent to the county to request these funds. Could you help us understand

why the home for good campaign had not applied to Wellington County to access those 500,000. There was available, , Uh, , By this in the city of grows Affordable Housing reserve. . Okay? The process of a capital campaign, especially in today's environment changes on a daily basis. So we have from month to month week to week been monitoring progress and assessing our position. And if there's been certain factors that have impacted us, uh, most notably, , I'll say the economic situation. . Hmm. We recently an Angus Paul came out that said that 40% of Canadians plan to reduce their charitable giving. Of course, we had recent inflation is continuing to go up. . We have stigma that is actually far worse than we expected it to be. When we started this campaign. There are many individuals that have said no to supporting the campaign, so there's factors that we continue to assess as the campaign continues, , and, , uh

If you would have asked me two weeks ago. If we needed this support, I actually would have said I'm not sure that we do. But that's how quickly things can change In our process. We actually had two's significant prospects that we've been working with for several months now. One that started positively and, , uh You know where we were told that we are likely to get funding. Just not sure how much and it ended up being a No. We found that out on Thursday of last week, and then we had another prospect that has decided to pause their decision, so it's just really quickly changing and assessing the situation. . And so that's where sometimes timelines. . For applying for traditional RFP processes or other opportunities can be a challenge. We're doing our best to stay adaptable and on top of various opportunities, but things are changing on a rapid basis, and we're doing our best to assess those challenges and respond to them and also look at bridge funding. Uh, if it's necessary. . Thank you. And one final question. Your worship

The home for good campaign has selected to support permanent, supportive housing hearing wealth. But we do have us a spectrum from the shelter system. Another projects that have applied for this funding in the question of what if we were to leave the funds there. Maybe they go to affordable housing. Maybe they go to Um, a different type. Maybe affordable rental. Why is permanent supportive? A priority over say, say, supporting affordable rental or affordable ownership. Um, , if you can please let us know. . Yeah. Um, I would start by saying, um I don't think people choose to be homeless. . Um We have the data. We have a really good idea what contributes to becoming homeless in it. . It's remarkable how many people are close to being homeless. . It's not just about being able to afford rent. If you have addiction or deep mental health needs. Um, I don't think you're going to maintain a rental place. . Um, that is reasonably priced. I don't think

you're going to come through the process. I'm not sure that you'll be the selected candidate. . Permanent, supportive housing. Um, addresses some of our most, um people with great need, and with housing. They'll also have the support to carry them through. And so we have started at, , um But I want to see the bottom line and I don't mean What I mean is at the most vulnerable and we are working our way up. But this is the starting point. . Thank you for that. And your worship. Would you like comments afterwards or now? ? The last two speakers of giving comments, so I'll just allow comments. Thank you worship, but I do want to make sure we're just we're flowing questions, comments questions and I like to call the vote and keep moving. So just if you've got the mic, you can answer your ask questions and you can give comments. Go ahead. Thank you Worship a few years ago, the Gulf Wellington Poverty Elimination Task Force identified that to help people, , um Get out of homelessness. We needed permanent, supportive housing that is housing that provides the supports to deal

with those issues that unless they're provided, it's difficult to get someone from a shelter system to to affordable rental or verbal ownership. Considering that, um, for example, Habitat for Humanity Fantastic organization, they build them attainable homes, but the minimum income for their building Waterloo is $79,000 for someone to be able to. . For Find that Affordable homeownership for folks that are street involved. There is this huge divide, and I think that it's important for us to know that sure we could live money in the affordable fund and wait for someone else to come to apply for that. It might be affordable rental. It could be affordable ownership, but we have heard from from the experts Inc Wolf that the best thing that we can do with the resources is provided the next step after the shelter system permanent, , supportive housing. . And then from there, folks can move up the housing spectrum. So I I asked my council colleagues to rely on the voice from those communities. Experts that are telling us that this is what we need to do. Next. We have the shelter system in place. Now. We need permanent, supportive housing in golf, and then we help can help

people move along that spectrum. Thank you. Thank you And Richard, I do have you on my list. . All Richardson next. . And Yeah, thank you very much. And through your marriage to our delegates are our guests. Sorry. . Um As a new councillor. I have lost hours of sleep over this a similar to councilor boost until over the weekend. We find out on a Friday afternoon that this is coming to us on Tuesday. There's nobody to talk to Saturday Sunday. We have one day to decide, , Um And and this is not our lane. This is not where we're supposed to be. We're not the experts on this. Our staff are not the experts on this, and I'm really struggling as much as I support supportive housing, and I know the need is there. I have a responsibility as Councilor, Busuttil said, as a stewardship to all the residents in wealth, and I guess one of the biggest questions is because right now in good conscience, I can't support this because I feel Like I'm making a blind decision, and I don't know. I don't know if there's other groups out there that can use this money. Is this the best use of our money? And I guess I'm wondering, you know, you said that, um, two weeks ago if we asked you this question, you would say I'm not. I don't know. I'm not sure. So if there was any inkling that you felt you weren't going to make your targets, why wouldn't have you have reached out and

started an RFP process at that time? ? To give people and especially councillors, time to get this information and provides staff our staff time to review and make the best decision possible. . So the, uh, the the final as I mentioned the one final gift that we were expecting to come in. We got the answer on that on Thursday, and, um, it just so happened like we have been transparent around the $770,000 that we have committed remaining remaining commitment to the Kindle project. . Because of the size of the gifts that we were working on raising over the last couple of weeks. We still felt confident about that. It was really just Thursday where that situation changed and was also the day that the opportunity was presented to us. So had it been this week and the opportunity hadn't been presented to us and we would have talked to all of our

Funding partners, including the city about opportunities for bridge funding and backups, So it's just really changed within the last week. . So through you through you married to our guests, if he so have you asked others for a contribution to this deficit, like, have you gone to the county and us and for if they're willing to join in and donate anything? ? Hmm. Not We are actively fundraising for the $770,000. We had two meetings on Monday with funding requests, so it's an ongoing process where we are reaching out and actively fundraising for this campaign, and it won't stop until we reach our $5 million and put us on the strong path to solving homelessness. At this point, we have not specifically reached out for additional funding from the county of Wellington. . We just thought we would seize this opportunity when it presented itself. . So seize this opportunity that presented itself. Can you tell me what that means?

Uh, when the opportunity to explore another matching opportunity was mentioned to us by Mayorga three. We, uh continued in conversations on that That was on Thursday. . Okay. . Thank you. . And Downer. Uh, thank you. Um, through you to our guests. Um, I guess one of the questions I have, so I just want to clarify. I think it's what councillor class and was saying to that. . So if there's there's was some funding targets that the home for good couldn't make the 200 some 1000, then the The 500,000 coming up. If there if there is No funding coming. Does this delayed the project and I'm not sure whether Miss Iran answers that or or without the funding if home too, , for good. . There's not Um, keep that commitment. Um, will this still will you still be able to open in October? ? Did you want to answer that? Or did Dario

wanted? Daria? Do you mind jumping in on that I can jump in on that. Good evening, everyone. I can't really see everyone on the screen. But thanks for having us here this evening. Um, the Kindle project right now is on time and on budget. Um we are reliant on all Um, funding contributions that have been made as part of the project in order to complete the project in the time frame that's allocated for that. . Okay, So if there's a delay, and if there is no funding, does that delay the project was my question. So you're reliant on it. I understand. But if the funding doesn't come through from the home for good is that going to delay the project finishing the project? ? We would certainly have to enter into negotiations with the home for good campaign if they weren't able to meet their funding contribution commitments, um and you know, regroup and you know, look at what our options would be at that point because of the entire project was scoped and based on the contribution agreements that The various contribution agreements that you know, provincially,

federally and municipally and with the home for good campaign that they've made That still doesn't answer my question. But the funding isn't there. Are you going to be late opening up? ? I think the question councillor is is a challenging question because we don't want to be delayed in opening up, And we do believe that the home for good campaign is actively working to meet their funding commitments and requirements. Uh and I think I was gonna has explained this has been a bit of a changing and evolving situation. . Um, I would want to come back together with the funders to see if there was any other options. Um, that would that we could look at that would not cause a delay to the opening of the project, which I think would directly impact um, community and those 32 individuals that we could have housed. . And is there any reason why the funding couldn't go directly to kindle? ? Rather than going through the home upset. Is there any reason why their funding Oh, I don't know why you were turning off my why the funding couldn't go directly through Kindle.

Um Like I'm just thinking of increasing the grant that we have right to the 1.3 increasing it. . By 500,000 and just making it clean going right there to cover off that, Um, the anticipated 495,000 that that do Um in August. Is there any reason why that can't be done and just like rather than going through and having the administrative costs and going through then, and all that process it gives it just puts it back. . From my perspective, sort of more in our lane, which is part of the granting that we've done every year. It just repeat moves the granting up, Um, a year a year like our grants up a year, we wouldn't go through an RFP process that would be added onto this project. . Um so that I'm just that That's another consideration that I'm thinking about. . There is one risk with that option. In that There is other funding that is contingent on our ability as home for good to deliver on our $2 million

commitment. . So if the funding isn't part of our $770,000 remaining commitment We'd have to ensure that that doesn't put the other funder at risk. . So that's just one important. . Thing that I wanted to highlight. Um and then the other Two items just so I don't understand that. So then you just have the 270. . Which is in the situation you're in now. Like if we didn't give you the 500,000 to leverage or do anything with your situation wouldn't be changing. You'd still need to get that extra funding. Keep your commitment. We provided a letter stating that we would provide $2 million to the Kindle Project, , which turned Ah, I believe approximately $2 million of funding from a, um, loan into a grant. And that's staying that way is contingent on us delivering our $2 million commitment, , So I'm just unsure. . Of if the funding goes directly to kindle.

Um, having night explore that prior to today. I'm not sure what position that leaves that other funding in, so I just want to be transparent on that because It's something that we were not able to explore previous two tonight. . Ah, The other piece is just with the And I understand your comments on the bringing it over to that lane that you're comfortable with. But then it does lose out on that opportunity, which we have proven to be successful to mobilize the community would leave us in a position where we are still required to raise the remaining $220,000. . Without the extra boost from the matching opportunity. Many people chose to donate during the last period because the matching was available and it is something that we could continue to present. What it really helped us with last time was not only giving but urgency and timelines of giving. . Because it was available. It really helped us accelerate our fundraising, which has been a challenge with the campaign timelines. So, uh yes, it would

meet the budgetary requirements of the 7 70. But we would lose out on that opportunity to really accelerate and emphasized the importance in the community. . Chris, Is there anything you wanted to add on that if if I may Um, our partners all committed to using the home for good campaign as the fundraising platform. . We've been a unified team delivering consistent messaging, giving through home for good insurers. . That both the Graph Community Foundation and the United Way recover costs. . I know that you're looking to minimize costs, but the home for good goal was intentional with our roles within that team. . The fundraisers are fundraising, which allows the three project partners to focus on their builds and on service delivery. . It keeps all of us doing what we're best at It really wouldn't have ever been helpful to have six organizations out there. Campaigning independently in trying to fundraise

donors would have had multiple asks, we wouldn't have had unified messaging, It really would have been well organized chaos. . Um So far. A grand total of $82,141 from all funds raised has gone towards administration costs. . And that includes things like, um, the campaign clan planning the feasibility study the branding the case for support the website marketing blog entries ads to generate interest into help to educate our public. . By sidestepping the home for good campaign and the platform. . Send a strong message to our community that you don't value the work that's happening in the expertise that's being used to lead the campaign. . So I appreciate that, though the there wasn't so much around cost but that you know that that's in there, , but it it's just around. . So without this 500,000, you're going to be in

that position anyway. So like for me, it was like, Is there a more direct way for us to fund The Kindle, as we have before by increasing our grant, because we have given the money to kindle as well. 1.2 million as well as what we've given. And so this is, how can we increase our grant? ? But by the sounds of it, so it's not. . It's not saying anything negative about What you're doing. It's about The comfort level of this council being in a process. . Um, rather than this, the the the and, as you see, A lot of people are shaking their heads rather than being in a process where we're giving money to afford donation to to to leverage again, and this is the second year in a row in the second year. We've gotten it last minute. . I mean, that's the other problem for us, right? And we have a producer responsibility to our constituents. . So that that sort of count. Some councils are just much more comfortable giving directly the Kindle, which is Arlene, which is part of our granting system because they've already put in an RFP and what this would just be increasing that grand, So it's not about. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was

undermining what you were doing to us. It needs to be need to find a way to make this Um Uh, a better scenario for us, But I understand what you're doing, and it sounds like you. You don't know. And I just This just came up late today. So it was a nice spoke to you and thank you for talking to me earlier tonight and dairy. . But it's it's I didn't hadn't really got that issue hadn't come up about finding it directly. So I can see that if that 2 million was contingent upon Another day, Another Funding source. Then that complicates the whole thing. Um Oh, sorry. So, um So, yes. So that just so you've you've answered, , um That that question. That's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I You know my comments, You know, just comments. I might come back. I might have put my hand up again. . But My comments are like I want to give like the money, right? So I just because I don't want, , um

Use 30 rooms to be sitting there waiting any longer while the community tries to find this funding, um and we're going to be its funding, that is that is there and it just means that we don't do an RP. It's It's that giving it to the homes for good is a bit of is more outside of the lane. . But Um, It's certainly was in our lane to give it to kindle. So it's sort of I'm I'm sort of thinking. I just don't want to see delay. I want these rooms open in October. You know, in October we're coming into winter. There's 30 people that could have a place to sleep in October. . So I'm just trying to find a way that we can do this that that works for everybody. . Um And the mediation is sort of. I think it's like, Is there another way of doing this? But it doesn't sound like that's possible. So I'm just Yeah. Let's keep going around. And and what? We can come and come back to you, then Alton and Gibson. Thank you very much mirror. Guthrie. I have a few questions for a few people. Actually, first one, I think I'll just ask you, Mr Guthrie, when? When were you made aware of this? ?

Uh, well, I guess I had a Daria. When did I meet with you last week that Thursday or Wednesday or When they meet you. Thursday. So there was no prior knowledge. Okay, Thanks. Um, And then, And then after that, I'll just just so you know, then after that, I called I called Glenna. Yeah. Thank you. Um, I miss Deborah and I was wondering if you could Please provide me with some cost information. What is the total cost of this project? ? Approximately $12 million million. So at this point, the city has invested approximately depending upon how you look at it, Um 10%, or possibly 15% into this project, depending upon whether we identify 1.3 million as what's being provided or 1.3. Plus, the 500,000 is that correct? ? Those are the correct numbers. Yes. Yeah, And we're looking possibly to provide another 500,000. Is that correct? ? As part of the matching campaign. Yes. So we would be probably getting up to about 20% then. Okay, the next question. I have actually, another money question. Um, this this relates

to for whom is this housing? I've heard it. It stated that it could be used for those who are currently do not have housing. Um and that they might be people who are suffering addictions and mental illness. . Am I right? ? Yes, The project is specifically permanent, supportive housing for people who have experienced and are experiencing chronic homelessness. Then the next question is, what will the costs of the units be? ? That is an awesome question that I don't have the answer to for you this evening. Um, we are working. My team is working with the county around the process in relation to tendency and costs affiliated with that. . Okay, Um I think what I want to do now is maybe just turn to some questions for staff with regards to where we're at. Now. What I understand is we're looking at putting ultimately $2.3 million into this project. . Is that correct? ? Um, so through the mayor, Um, what we are granting is just over 1.3 million. That's

the city's grant. 500,000 has gone to the homes for good campaign and how that has been allocated. I don't mean to deflect but how that has been allocated and I'm not sure that it's reasonable for me to comment on of the 1st 500,000. Which of those dollars went to which project I think that's more granular than I can comment on, , I think Each of the projects we've we've contributed. 300 change to 1 800 change to another in 1.3 and change to kindle and 500,000 of the homes for good campaign that they have chosen. Then how to allocate out to those three. What is being considered before he was an additional 500. . If Depending how you want to allocate those dollars. You want to assume that all of the original 500 was what went to kindle and I'm again. I'm not sure that that's I think that math is overly simplistic, but I alternative Lennon and Chris Um, but the city's contribution to kindle through the grant remains at the $1.3 million to date. . Then where does that other 500,000 other 500,000 went to the homes for good campaign so that they could honor their commitments to all three projects. I can't comment of the 500 how it was split, because that was money that was handled at the homes for good

campaign and of things, But then and then I will get to the homes for good. . This 500,000 I just need clarification, probably both staff and from guests. Where is it going through the mayor. My understanding is that the current deficit is owed that the money is currently to kindle so that that Wyndham and Grace Gardens are not in a deficit position, but that Kindle is who is in the deficit position of just over $770,000. So my understanding is that this 500 would go Through the homes for good campaign to then be able to honor their commitment that they have made to the Kindle project. So ultimately we would be looking at 1.8 Million plus a proportion of the money that was given a year ago. That is, yes, we don't know what that is. Bible turn over to the guests of the funding provided in the previous matching 205,000 of that was provided to the Wyndham House, , Bellevue. . Project, and the remainder was provided to kindle. So, uh, there was support for two supportive

housing projects at that time, and Colleen was correct that the current funding would all go to the Kindle project. So then that would make it approximately a total of 2.1 million total to kindle. Is that correct? ? Okay, , that helps a ton. . What happened to the Grace Gardens. It was not funded through the city of Guelph funding. We provided funding to it through community donations. Thank that helps a ton. . Um Now. The question I have now is a governance question and and it really is. . I'm struggling with the issue of RFP s, and I was wondering if staff could please tell me what is the point of the RFP process If we then are called on very short notice to actually allocate money in some senses. I think we're doing a disservice both the governance and possibly to other projects in the community and just hoping I can hear from staff on that. . Through the Merida Council, also, certainly just backing up prior to us, going through the RFP process and deciding to have the county of Wellington or council

directing. We had previously funded Saint Joe's. They had a shortfall they came back in that ask came directly to counsel. It was actually as a result of that that lead counsel to say We need expertise in in evaluating because at that time staff were asked Well on what basis should we evaluate The additional ask from Saint Joe's, and we s staff had to say we don't really have the expertise. So we're struggling to give you that advice and guidance. And so at that point, that's when Council made the decision that having been said council always has the right to work outside of that RFP process. . If Unlimited time was available to us and this is Colleen's opinion. Now I think that the ideal situation would have been that the homes for good campaign might have notified Kendall that they were not going to be honored, able to honor their funding commitment and then Kindle could have chosen to approach any of their funders and said, We have a shortfall and then we as the city could have. . Reissued issued an RFP and Kendall could have, um, submitted a second time and we would have seen if there was anyone else out there. Or maybe Kendall would have been the only one who submitted in which case we could have been considering funding of this

shortfall through another RFP process. However, that would have taken time both for the homes for good campaign to provide that notice to kindle if they weren't going to be able to ensure their contribution agreement. . And then for the city to respond and make a decision about issuing an R P and those RP process like that takes That takes time. So I think that, um Yet. I think I completely appreciate the dilemma that you are being faced with, because we do have an RFP process and I can't tell you if I think there's anyone else out there that might respond. We also I have not had an opportunity to speak with the county of Wellington housing services, so I don't know. Um, uh, it's been indicated that an approach hasn't gone to the county, Wellington. We have not had that conversation with him either. There are other funders of all of these projects. . Of course, , it's a $12 million. . Checked. There are other funders. And so my my dilemma tonight is I I haven't had the time. Um and nor do I have the expertise to really give you a good answer as to what are the other options. If time was on our side, then we would have much preferred a staff to be sitting down and having

the conversation and mapping out how we might bring a recommendation to counsel on this, But there is a time pressure and I think that's what everyone is struggling with is I don't think there's any doubt that we are all committed to the fact that we want people who are living in homelessness to have a roof over their head. . Wherever possible. Yep. So what I'm hearing you say you didn't have the time to either recommend or suggest that we do not support this that you You're in the same time. Constraint that we are, Uh, through the mayor. Yes, that is correct. We also, , uh, , first learned of this Thursday. . Late in the day, and we simply had opportunity to work with clerks and the mayor on the on the wording of the motion, But not on any. We didn't have any further conversations. I did have the opportunity to speak to Miss Benda on Friday morning when she reached out to me, But that was that was the extent of the conversations that we've been able to have on this just because of the time constraints to to further questions for staff and then one for Kindle. . Am I correct them to understand that we don't have any documentation on this right now. . Through the marriage councillor. All not that has come

in through staff simply the letter that was submitted. I believe co signed by Ms Brenda and Mr Willard that came in on Friday afternoon, but that you we received that when you did okay through the clerk's office. Um, the other question. Perhaps it's um I don't know whether it's for you, Miss Clark Bush or somebody else because we have social services and housing coming from the county, and we're doing part two of our housing issue in September. What I'm struggling with is why are we Actually entertaining this before September. I have heard some points that there there might be some time urgency and I will ask the same to Miss Ed Byrne as well. But why are we doing this before September? ? So through the Merida councillor. All I would. I'm not trying to differ, but I think, um, if I've understood there is a time pressure, uh, a deadline of August that has potential in terms of the jeopardy the project being in jeopardy, But I'm likely not the best person to ask that question. Mr Brown. I was wondering if you could perhaps provide some highlights of that. . Gonna, and Chris, do you want to speak to the time constraint issue? ? Yes, it's actually our time Constraint. We have

funding commitments based on timelines that are related to that other funding is contingent upon and we had a funding deadline of June 15th ended upcoming one of August 15th. . So that's where the urgency lies. . And the August the August 13th and he said, Uh, the funding urgency there. Um, I don't know whether it's appropriate to ask it, but with whom would that be? And how does this alleviate that? ? So our commitment to raise $2 million locally unlocked funding from cmhc and we have commitments to deliver on our local fundraising to be able to ensure that funding is available for the remainder of the expenses for the project. . I think I only have one last question. It's really to miss Hebron about the future. And I do want to thank you with regards to this this project in so many ways, because it is vital housing. . Um, , when this project is finally done

Are we able to confirm that there will be 24 hour wrap around service, or is that still to come? ? Just trying to end mute. Sorry about that. Um, the home for good campaign is supporting the capital costs of the project and we are working in partnership or while the golf community Health Center and Stonehenge are working to secure the permanent supportive housing programming aspects of the project. . Thank you. Thank you, Very Guthrie. Councilor Gibson, please. Yeah. Thank you through, Mr Mayor. I'm just gonna go back to some first principles, my understanding here and it was through you in discussion. But maybe you can clarify the $500,000 just being Hmm. That's Is it going to just simply be given or is it is it being given as an is a matching campaign, , So it's being leveraged to To drive more giving to the program. Is that right, , Mr Mayor? ? Are you asking me or the guests? The guests or or your? It's your motion, But yeah, I can ask the guests as well. Sure, , Miss Miss Abran, , try go ahead. .

Okay, I'll go first, and I'll just jumping over to them A so Yeah, the entire intent of this Is to mirror exactly what we did last year. And they turned $500,000 into 1 million and $96,000 and amplified the importance and urgency of supportive housing in our community. . That's it. Right. The fundamental principles of this is to turn $500,000 into a million. . For $500,000 that is currently sitting in an account. Earmarked for these types of projects, and there's no projects earmarked for it at all. . So I'll stop there and go to the guests to see if they need to add anything. Supplies for applied. Need Something like nothing to add. Okay, I'll end with my with my comments. Then Mr Mayor, Souls are based on the success of the first go around. Listen, this is short notice. Yes, I'm a slightly out of my comfort zone. . However. . Um you know, I I don't I don't mean to play on emotions here, but for the first

time ever, I received an email from a constituent in the furthest East end neighborhood. We have saying that the police and fire were in the backfield just over the weekend, tending to someone in a tent and you know that's that's some people's front door now. . Throughout the city, and this is an opportunity to really to really finish off. What is a great project again not to pull on hard drinks, but the The intent here is to if I understand it, and I think you just clarified that if there's a $5 in the community That is willing to spend is willing to give to this cause the city's willing to get $5 to. And so if there's $10 in the community that is willing to give discuss the city will give $10 to up to $500,000. So, um, I really see it as a two for one here. Um, I know that it's $500,000. I know I know that. But when we're able to leverage it the way that we have and demonstrated, I really just I just fix my eyes on on the finished product. . On that on that project and getting 30 people housed. So I do have questions with the operations of the facility. I'd like to have peace of mind that the operations costs are are are taking care of in the future, But in terms of the capital

investment, um I just see it as a must. I don't see it as a as a as a maybe. . I see. . This must Okay. Thank you and Keeton. Thank you, Mr Mayors for you to our guests. . Um, , so like Councilor Richardson and councillor be Still I am struggling with the timeline and the process. . Of having to make this decision so quickly and without all of the needed support of the county. . Um And as councilor. All, said September, 12th is when the county is supposed to come back to us with a full report on the low income housing And, um I would really have appreciated that 1.5 months for a more fulsome picture of where and how we might need to put this money. . Um But I was wondering I would waiting until that meeting or playing for an RFP in that timeline Impact the development of jewel. . So the question The question is How would waiting until they if we wait till September

to get more information from the county? ? How could that Always how is waiting until September. For more information going to affect your Your obligations that development schedule. I have a separate question for development schedule. . Yeah. . So, from my perspective, the contribution agreements that we have, um the story The home for good campaign is connected to the contribution agreements that we have. . Uh and we're reliant on the money that we get from the contribution agreements, the multilevel contribution agreements as well as the home for good campaign to pay for the cost of our project. . And we anticipate and expect given that our project is months from completion that we will be continued to receive. . Um, quite costly invoices, uh, to us that will be required to be paid in the upcoming months. And so I think that is a bit of a difficult question. Without the funds. There's an impact to our cash flow. Um, and

so there potentially is a timing issue. . If we wait until the September date. Thanks. Thank you, Councilor Keeton back to you to the Glenna and, um, the home for good folks. . Have you spoken to the CMHC to see if the funding day is movable because that seems to be the risk. . More than anything, right? We are the We have not directly. We do not have a direct relationship with Cmhc. So we provided the letter of support and our commitment dates. . So that is not a conversation we have had at this point for the June 15 delivery date that we had for funding. There was some flexibility. The importance is ensuring that construction and our development remains on schedule. . So the ultimate factor is ensuring that that cash flow is there, so it's all reliant on each other,

Like really, Their flexibility will only depend on the development schedule. . So it's possible that they would be okay with the funding coming in September. . If you had that conversation. If it didn't negatively impact the development and invoices and being received by the Kindle project. . Because they would want to ensure their ultimate goal is to ensure that construction continues. . Okay? And through the mayor to, um not So Because this is a matching fund, and it would presumably be given after the matching amounts have been received. . Isn't it possible that You wouldn't be getting the money until about September anyway. . So through the merit a councillor Kate and just for

clarification, the motion specifies the motion That's different this year than last year is that it specifies the pain out of the $500,000 now that the city would directly pay out the 500,000 and then that that would be repaid. If the matching dollars weren't raised by a certain deadline, I'll look to safety really wants to comment further if I got it correct. . Okay, Counselor. Cayton, You're good. Then those are your questions. Okay. Sorry. I don't understand. . Okay. Thank you. So I only got only got Two more and then I'd like I'd like I think we're More informed. Because of the questions. I think we need to get get to calling the vote here, please. So I'm gonna go O'Rourke and then Corrine And then I know Richardson. I think maybe just had a quick follow up as well. But then I'd like to. I'd like to. I'd like to call the vote, , okay? ? Um, thank you, Mark Guthrie. Um Hmm. I'm thinking many things. Everyone sitting around this table wants to see this project

completed right? ? And we've already demonstrated significant commitment with the 1.3. There will be the waving of development charges as per Bill 23, which actually takes a significant cost off of that construction. . Um, project Um And really last year's $500,000 was was to create momentum. . Um, , so I am. . I'm struggling because we're hearing about cmhc. We're hearing about other things, but we have We don't have the documentation on that. . So in three years if somebody comes to say on what basis did you make that decision? ? There's just the letter. So I've got some questions about the letter. But really in terms of a $500,000 decision. This is light in terms of governance in terms of timing, and in terms of government governance. The the other thing before I get into my questions is With all due respect, I've served on both your boards. . Right So three, , America three. . We need to be cautious that the expectation is not that

That taxpayer funds and and civic funds Need to make up the shortfall at a campaign it could be regardless of the organization could be. Lots of other organizations could be the same. . Issue. But that is that's a really dangerous thing that we are considering. So I These are things I'm struggling with. . So I just want to get into some of the questions I have about the letter and some general things. Um, but there's no question that everybody wants to see these affordable, supportive having units built. We're just trying to understand, and we're trying to understand. . I'm just not a lot of Data submitted to file and Keep so, um through America 32. I think, Miss Miss Embrun. The letter says, R $2 million funding commitment to the Kindle 10 shell. They'll project is connected Other funding, , so we understand that now. . And includes target dates aligned with construction milestones We are behind on these timelines. . But I heard you say you're on time and on budget. . So can you help me understand?

How how the construction is behind. I understand the home for good campaign is behind. . But is the construction behind? The construction is not behind the project is on target. . Okay, completion. Okay. Maybe the clarifying the clarifying part Part that I could add councillor is that the home for good campaign is connected to the contribution agreement and the home for good campaign and please, Glen and Chris speak to this, um, had specific dates that contributions were required to be made by Okay, Now I understand that, um And then the paragraph through your Guthrie goes on to say, , you know, , there's a there's a There's a funding gap, um, from the home for good campaign to kindle. . Um, and that those fundraising activities can continue, so that's great. . So why would it not be helpful for the city to just Open up its existing $1.3 million agreement and increase it as we did for Saint Joe's. .

So wouldn't that mean that the home for good campaign just has to make up the shortfall of $270,000 which seems like a good thing to me? So so why not a fully appreciating what it cost to fundraise, , etcetera. . You would actually have a smaller gap if we could use an existing vehicle and fund it that way. . Why not? I'm just not sure how that impacts the other funding condition. . Uh, , unfortunately, , because Even though that funding is being provided directly to kindle. We're not meeting our $2 million commitment, then. . That we committed to which turned alone into a grant. Uh, it actually reminds me of the last matching opportunity where we inquired with staff. . If funding that was received directly to the Wyndham House project could be part of the match. And the answer was no because the funding needed to flow through. . Home for good campaign. So there are commitments with

funders. Where if funding goes directly to a project, it could impact other funding. So I'm just cautious. . That if it was to go direct, and I do totally understand your point. I just don't know how it would impact that other funding and I wouldn't want to put Kindle in a tricky position. . Um through America three to miss Abran. Um, I'm assuming I've talked to some folks who do lots of construction. . Um Should there be a funding shortfall? Do you have construction financing in place to be able to just continue to build and then it allows a longer timeline to fundraise to fill that gap? ? It's my understanding most most construction projects. Do you have kind of a backup plan? ? We Again, Counselor. I think that our or I don't think I know that the we have contribution agreements in place with multiple funders as we've already mentioned here

this evening. Um our draws from those contribution agreements are based on timelines. Um, home for good campaign, as we indicated, is connected to the card that they contribution agreement. . Um And I think that if any one of those pieces of funding or not available and we were in a situation where we needed to consider not being able to meet The outcomes of the project. Then we would have to get together with our funders, and we would have to have a conversation about what that meant meant and how we would move forward. . So three Marga three to miss ever and I'm just trying to understand like Most construction projects will have a secure line of credit, , or they will have some kind of Of back up in case there's like lots of inflation or or whatever disruption right. So can can kindle not borrow to fill the gap because there's a reference to. . Well, , we're seeking bridge funding. . Um But Do you have debt capacity that would create more time

so that we could go through the right process so that home for good campaign could raise more funds and and meet their obligations like I'm trying to think of ways we're trying to get to Yes, um as as partners, and I'm curious to know if that's been explored. . Kindle would certainly have to go back and look at what our options are in terms of how we would cover that gap. Um, and I think that that would have a straight that would have a significant impact on kindle and strain on Kindle and and we would have to look at that. Um, you know, we have been very confident in the campaign that has been put forward by home for good. . Um and we have been, you know, working in and through a process that considered all levels of commitment that have been given by all levels of government to complete this project. . Thanks, Margo. Three. So, thanks for the answer. . Okay, Um So similar question than to the home for good campaign. . Why not continue your fundraising activities overall longer period of time, Because if you're looking at making up that

shortfall by August, , 15th like is that Is that a reasonable expectation? Hmm. Um In a perfect situation. The home for good campaign would have been a five year campaign. . Rather, a five year campaign has been delivered so far in 15 months. . And in 15 months. We have seen $1.7 million provided to projects that are open and one remaining. . At this point for the home for good campaign. There is no plan B in the sense that if there were daughter dollars that were easily accessible to address homelessness. I can assure you we would have wrapped her arms around them, and we have addressed homelessness already. . Um And really, this is why we are Um, championing and working so hard to raise funds. . Um, so that we can make sure that golf is one of the first communities to end homelessness. . So through you, Margaret, three. There's There's

no argument from anybody about that at all. . Um, And in that vein in terms of, you know, , exploring, , turning over every rock Is there a plan to go talk to the county, , which is the housing service provider. . I mean, we're we're running in the middle of an active fundraising campaign toward our 5 million goal. We will be reaching out to all of our funding partners and prospects. . To achieve that. Thanks. Um, so through America. Three couples questions questions for staff. . Is there a path? Sorry. I do have a last question for the home for good campaign there, , Guthrie through you to Miss Banda. . Yep. Um So I asked you this question a year ago in terms of the admission fees if we wanted to stay strictly in the capital lane right to strictly fund the capital, , which Is sort of aligned with where we need to be. . Um, would you wave the admission fees? So that we can have the funds going strictly to

capital and you can fund them through. . The match community donations as as you said, you did for Grace Gardens. . Sorry. I don't understand the comment about Grace Gardens. . So three years ago three earlier said, uh, the city's matching contribution funded, , um The candle project and Bellevue. But that Greece Gardens was funded through other community donations. . Right so you can earmark stuff. . Is it possible to earmark this city funding? Should the vote be? ? Go through. To not cover the admin fees because those are going to be. Is it five or 10% administration fee If there's this funds transfer Yeah, So, uh, It is a minimal 5% administration fee for all contributions through the home for good campaign that are made, which have been agreed upon by all partners. Those fees are to this date strictly being used to cover

direct expenses as Chris mentioned earlier. . That's $82,000 for outside support. Currently, the community foundation and United Way have received $0 of fees to support the time and efforts that we have put into this campaign. . It's Unreasonable to expect that we will get to a $5 million goal and solve homelessness. If we don't have the capacity to support the expertise required to make this campaign successful. . But I appreciate that. Thank you. So through America through your staff, I'd like to hear from staff if there is a path forward, either through the county like to hear what their concerns are, Um And I'm I'm a little trouble that were the people who are trying to get to Yes, to just say, Listen, we here's $500,000 that would be willing to give directly to kindle to get it done. Um, that seems to be really problematic on a on documentation we got Friday. . King hard here and unless somebody in the future comes

back to watch the video to get all the details. . This is this is tough to do on I'm just this conversation. So I'd like to hear from staff with the concerns are and if there is a path forward what that might look like So through you, Mr Mayor as CEO Certain listening here tonight, , I think And before I make any comments, there is no reflection of the campaign. . That's not in doubt. But I think what's missing here is the lack of conversations with city staff. . This board. It's used to operate and with reports that come from city staff. In fact, you had that was Saint Joe's. . They had. They had a An issue with funding. They came to us with another report. You got to a positive vote. That's how it works. And and I would say that for a three correct gas If we were sitting down to do that, That's what this sport is looking for. So from a fiduciary responsibility, so I'm not talking about community here. I'm talking about this board you as a council. That's what's missing here. There hasn't been any discussion. I mean, I look at I was reading the the there the letter that came into with everybody else. . The cash flow issue is

Can we work on that? Is this alone that you need to get from here to there? ? What is this thing with the loan turning into a grant? We are out of the loop, so we can't give you good advice, and that's all that is not a place that we normally operate. We normally have a position for from stats perspective. We think you can do this. . So I think maybe there's an opportunity depends what you want to do tonight as a councillor as a whole, But let me sort of speak from this sort of this year. . Is. What if we were to sit down with the three gas tonight so that we can understand these things so that we can document it and Colin emergency, meaning? I have no idea. The ripples of August 13/14 or 15th. I'm just trying to and so there it is. I shouldn't even have to think about that. And then we just get that done so that we can bring you options that you might get to that positive place, And it might be as simply as Let us understand the ripple into sort of what does it do to the $2 Million campaign? I cannot give you an answer to that tonight because we have not. We have not been engaged in that, and that's not a good place for you. I think And yet we're all committed to it. So I think that's the that's the rub we've got. Maybe the issue here is sit down with city staff so

that we can get it sit down with Carney staff. . But you know, we were just We were just on the phone today was was. My county staff doesn't matter who as senior county staff, and we could bring something back that says. We think this is the clearest path forward and it doesn't upset any of the other apple carts or there's an agreement. . That you can discuss and camera because these things are in camera material that had to be so I think perhaps what's missing is the opportunity here for You know, I'm watching D. C o clock. Bush sort of trying to answer things and and we're doing it. The simple answers were not involved, , so we don't have answers. . And I don't think that's appropriate for you to hear that from us, But it is tonight, so I think the opportunity is perhaps If we want to keep our powder dry with deadlines in place. There should be a meeting that we just do immediately and then staff can get at this. If that would be helpful for what you need on the documentation side because at some point you do not want so let me say this and you're not suggesting that at some point you do not want to be the backstop for all other campaigns that also might have issues. You need to have a reason that you've done this. . So that you can see yes or no the next time if you just do it tonight. This way.

I think it is a bit of a heart strings, and we're struggling with that. But as a board, that's not you. That's not your lane. Your lane is to make decisions differently. And so effort the opportunity tonight, Mr Merthyr, councillor. I think that might be an opportunity for us to Clearly this track, so you know we're in a couple of hours here, and it's good stuff. But let's document it for you so that in the future there is a reason that we can get behind it. You can get behind it because you have cleared it from our perspective. You know, our finance staff have looked at it just from a risk a quick risk. There's no due diligence here. Respectfully. You probably done lots of what I am not talking about the campaign. . But from this table if you're looking for due diligence, you're not voting on it tonight With due diligence, it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it's not there for you. Perhaps we can come back with a Is it better to open up the existing RFP? Maybe. Maybe not, because we don't know the details of how does that impact the campaign and the other contributions? ? But but we would have serious questions around, uh, donor back down last Thursday, and we're in this pickle three days later. . How can we help you with that? Because I just can't get my head around it here tonight to help you with that. .

So I think that's the opportunity and we've got lots of examples to try to get through that. You know, I love getting to yes, but sometimes policy on on distribution of public funds is is likely important as a board. Not likely, it's important is important as a board and that will give you comfort when you say yes to this. . You know, I can't imagine what likely coming back with a report that says no, after all the discussions tonight, But we might come back with a report that says this is how you get there and you take these steps that are not Clearing up for everybody tonight versus a complete deferral. Those sort of things I let us understand the deadlines a little more. That's the value added that I would say that the three community guests that staff bring to it as well, Respectfully, and that's what you're looking for from your staff to help you with this, and we're not being helpful because we're out of loop and we need to get in the loop to walk you through it. . So, Mr Mayor. That's just observations for this chair might help us move on a little faster as we're getting near the end, or you might just want to fund it anyway. But I'll just leave that as an alternative option for you is decision makers. . Thank you. So, councillor Rourke still has the floor. Um, you know, from my vantage point, both

looking at my colleagues on screen and in the room there seemed to be, , um Some some positive vibes If I could call it that as to potential referral on the matter, Um, with exactly the sort of process as you, uh, laid out for us, so I will. I can't move a motion of referral because But councillor or work does have the floor so up to you to consider. . How we move forward. Thanks, man. Guthrie through you, um to counsel. I would like to move a motion to refer the recommendation to staff. . For their consideration. And asking them to come back with, um, an emergency meeting. . For consideration and and seconded by councilor boost until Yeah, uh, And going to order your worship Sure, just the timeline of when it when it needs to come back. . Um, well, I think I think it's implied that on August 15th is an urgent matter, and it's implied that our staff want to work with the three that are here as guests

tonight, and I think some sort of information would come back to me as the chair and then maybe a doodle calendar request and go out to all of us, , I think I think it's implied that it would be before this August 15th deadline. Am I correct the staff? Mr Mayor, you're correct. We will operate with the sense of urgency given it this evening will look at you to do the same when we pick a date, and we'll work with the three guests so that we completely understand. . We also don't want to put you in a predicament the night before decision that really so we likely will try to find a couple of days beforehand so that there's breathing space for you to question lots of things, But we have to understand what is this deadline? Maybe there's a solution to the deadline. That's helpful that we could Yeah, we get the sense of urgency will operate that way. . Yep. All right. I'm gonna call the vote on Councilor Downer first Can you clarify one issue now? The letter calls these dates targets, not deadlines. Is that the case? ? Their targets is not hard, fast deadlines so We've got breathing breathing space for a few days that

yes, they are targets that we outlined in our letter of commitment to cmhc. Okay, Great. Thanks. . So, so they are deadlines. Because that's part of your obligation for financial contributions or no I'm not trying to ask that you don't like like I'm not trying to ask that underhanded by any means. I'm actually I'm actually serious, like are. Is it a target? Meaning you have a week plus or minus or or because it's actually embedded in your financial obligations to see it, Cmhc that it is something that has to be met by August 15th. . Or is that something you have to just discuss with staff? ? Yeah, And okay, Colleen to the mayor of maybe I can jump in. I think that's part of the conversation that we're going to have. Probably tomorrow morning. Heads up to those of you are guests because we need to understand because the relationship between cmhc is not through homes for good. The legal relationship with CMHC sits with Kendall. So that's part of like I've You know, to be clear. I've literally not had a conversation with Ms Hebron. So we're going

to have that conversation tomorrow morning, so I can try to get clarity on that and bring you that report back. . Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh, okay. Uh, let's call the vote on this and before I just call the vote. . I I started. I started by saying I know that we are all trying to figure out how to get the ask. . I just heard Our CEO say the same thing, right? The very end here of this conversation. . And I heard it many times through through people. My colleagues here too, So that's that's good. That's a good position to start with, right And so let's see what happens. It's in my In my point of view, it's better than a No. So, uh, so it's a we'll see and we'll see what happens and see if we require an emergency meeting. . To help with the support of housing needs. Okay, So, um, has anyone against the referral? ? Okay in favor, Mr. Mayor on the phone favor, Okay. Thank you, Councilor Gibson. And can you just throw it up on the screen? Just to everyone at home can see it to the clerks. Apologies, Mr Mayor. We have not received anything in writing. . Yeah. Okay. Um, but the motion,

um the motion is to refer you Say it again. A councillor. O'Rourke for audio America three. I think this is part of our procedural bylaw wording. And so I have to provide it in writing. That's right, as opposed to saying it out loud. Okay. Okay. So if I could have just Yeah, I'm gonna give you 30 seconds. . Yes, , thanks. . Yep. No problems, miss type when the clock is ticking. . While we're just waiting for that, um I will again call the vote. As soon as it comes up on the screen is I kind of did because we just had a councillor. Say yes to you, Counselor. Busuttil. Yes, Thank you. I just want to say thank you to the CEO and to the staff. Uh, you know, I started off with process and in process and process. And how are you feeling? And I felt, you know, validated by the CEO and this process of my colleagues, So thank you for that. . Thank you. Okay? Um well, this weight was wait a second, everybody and we'll we'll get that done. . So three America three. If I can just say it out loud and then we can say yes,

That's what we offered sure motion to refer the matter to staff for urgent consideration, resulting in an emergency meeting of council in the coming weeks. . That work. Yep. And Councilor Busuttil was, I think, still okay with seconding that Councilor dollar We've had audio and verbally stated Alright again. I'm just going to call the vote. I know Councilor Gibson said Yes, but is anyone against the referral? ? Alright. So that's unanimous. Thank you to our guests that have answered a lot of questions, and I'm sure you'll be answering a lot more. But at least you'll know that there's a movement. We'll see what happens. Okay. Thank you very much for joining us. . And thank you very much for at least the conversation about it. . Appreciate that. . Counselor to I'm looking at you tonight for the bylaws, , please. . And, , uh, , You don't need to read them all. But maybe just the numbers there for us. . Um, do you, Mr Mayor? I'm actually quite excited to be moving these bylaws because some of them actually have some meaning to me and my constituents. . I don't have to go into detail, but

Ah, yes recommendation that bylaws numbered 2003-20804. 2013-20814 to 23 23-20816. 2023-20818 and 2023-20819 are hereby past Thanks your colleague there, councillor or work from Ward six. Well, second anything further on those bylaws. . No. Okay, I'll call the vote on those anyone against Alright. That's unanimous. Thank you so much. Mayors announcements. Uh, nothing for me. So have a great night and, uh Other than the potential emergency meeting coming up. I just want to wish everyone a good little bit of a break. . I'm only speaking for me, but I need it. So I hope everyone else has a great time as well. . And without adjournment, , please. . Klaassen and dollar are gonna move adjournment. Is anyone against that? Nobody. That means we're out of here. Thank

you so much. Everyone. Have a great night.