Single-use items by-law and Drill Hall future

All right. Good evening, everybody. I'm going to call the meeting to order. Here it is. Tuesday, June 25, 2024. It is 530. This is our council meeting, and as I said, I'm calling it to order. Right off the top. We are looking to move into a closed session. Before I do that, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature? Thereof. Before we go into closed seeing and hearing none, I have regrets today. From ["Councillor"] Richardson. As is disclosed on the open agenda. We have the bargaining mandate report. Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 1189. That's under section 2392 d of the Municipal act, labor relations or employee negotiations. We have an appointment to the board of trustees of the Elliot, which is under section 2392 b. Of the municipal act. Personal matters about unidentifiable individual, including municipal or local board. Employees, and we have Southgate business park. Parklands a revised term sheet section 2392

cf. And I of the municipal act, a proposed or pending acquisition or disposition of land by the municipality or local board, advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary for the purpose and trade for that purpose and a trade secret. Or. Scientific, technical, commercial, financial or labor relations information which is supplied in confidence to the municipality or the local board. With those in front of us. Would some be willing to move to go into close for me? Councilor Clawson. Councilor Katen. We'll do that. Is there anything further on? Those items, hearing and seeing none. I will call the vote. Anyone against? Hearing and seeing none. That's unanimous. We will move into closed session, and I will give a high level summary when we return to the open session. Thank you very much.

Okay, I'll call the meeting back to order in the open session here. And as I mentioned earlier, we did go into a closed session. Sorry, we're starting a little bit late. Out here in open. Apologies. We went back for three items, so I'll just go through each of them. The first. One is the bargaining mandate. For Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1189. And council did give direction to staff on that matter. And the second one was Southgate Business park lands. A revised term sheet. And council received information about that, no direction was given at all. And then. On the appointment to the board of trustees, to the Elliot, we're going to do a motion bringing it out from closed session into the open session right now, and I'll go. To councilor Alt to read that out for us. Thank you very much. Mayor Guthrie, moved by alt seconded by Busatille that Lee betteridge be appointed to the board of trustees. Of the Elliot for term ending. June 2027. Or until such time as a successor is appointed. Great. Thank you. Is there anything further on that appointment. Don't hear or see anybody, so I'll call the

vote. As anyone against. Nobody. So thank you to Lee and to the Elliott. And that passes unanimously with the closed meeting. Summary out of the way. I'd like to ask everyone to please rise if you are. Able as we recognize our national anthem.

Great. Thank you. And as we continue, just a moment of silent reflection.

Great. Thank you. And for our territorial acknowledgment as we gather. Let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live here and work here in Guelph. A city that's built over rich indigenous histories. We're guests here and should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land. The people who live here today and the generations to come. For actions today can move us towards reconciliation. We should take pause and make those decisions with intention. And gratitude. This place we call Guelph is served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for. Many peoples over time, but more specifically the Anawana rock and the Honosoni. This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the credit first. Nation, and Guel flies directly adjacent to the Holdeman track and is part of the long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the grand. River. Many First Nations, Inuit and Mati people who have come from across Turtle Island Calgwelf home today. And thank you. And with that, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest, any general nature thereof for the items in front of us for open session tonight. Seeing none and just again. We do have official regrets from Councilor Richardson. With that. We do have a sum

committee of the whole. Flowing. Reports from committee that are on consent. And so I'll just kind of go through them all and just see if anyone wants. Them pulled the 2024 corporate asset management plan and levels of service study. Okay. And the Joint Social Services Land Ambulance Committee consent report. Okay, those are the two. May I ask? A member of council to move consent billings. And clausen. Hearing. Nothing more. Any questions? Nothing. No? Okay, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against consent? No, don't see or hear anybody. So that's unanimous. Thank you so much. Did I miss the minutes? Yes, I did. Sorry about that. Everybody. Let's do the minutes. Open council meetings held May 14 and 28, 2024, and the committee of the whole meetings held on April 3, May 7 and 15th, 2024, to be confirmed. As recorded and without being read. Councilor Downer, I saw your hand go up for that. Thank

you. Busatill will second the minutes. Anything on the minutes? Not hearing or seeing anybody on that, so I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? And that's nobody. So thank you very much. That's unanimous as well. So we are moving into the items for discussion. And right off the top, We're going to have some presentations here. From our external. Consultants. Not consultants, really. Our oversight team from kpmg. For the 2023 audited consolidated financial statements. And so I will turn it over to our finance team. From kpmg to do that for us. Thank you. Over to you. Thank you. Because you are certainly not Matt, are you? I am not. Yes. Please introduce yourself. Okay. I am Tisha colleague. Senior financial analyst in corporate reporting. And I'm. Here to present the 2023 financial statements. Okay. Thank you

so much. Good evening, Mayor Guthrie, members of council and members of the public joining us today, I am pleased. To be able to present highlights from the 2023 consolidated financial statements to you today. Last month, council received the 2023 yearend financial results for operating capital and city reserves. The consolidated financial statements combines all of those reports, plus. Our consolidated entities into four financial statements to give a full and detailed picture of the city finances. Today. We'll not repeat the information you heard last month. Instead, I will be highlighting key. Items from the 2023 financial statements. In the presentation today, I will discuss the two new financial reporting standards implemented in 23 highlight key items from the statement of financial position and discuss some of the key financial indicators the city measures using the financial statements. Before I begin, I'd like to thank all members of staff and our consolidated entities for. Their assistance with the city's audit and consolidated statements. Preparing the statements requires extensive communication and collaboration from all departments across the city and with our consolidated entities, and I truly appreciate all their

efforts. The municipal act requires the city engage independent auditors to. Express an opinion as to whether the financial statements fairly present the city's financial results for the year. KPMG is the audit firm for the city, and shortly you will hear from Matt Bettek, partner at KPMG, who present the findings from their audit. The consolidated financial statements are prepared by city staff in accordance with public sector accounting standards, which we refer to as psas, which are set by the Public Standard Accounting board of CPA Canada. As a refresher, our consolidated entities include the Guelph polic. Police service. The Guelph Public Library. The Elliot community. Wellington Duffin, Guelph public. Health. The Downtown Guelph Business association, the Guelph Junction Railway, and Guelph Municipal Holdings Inc. The methods used for consolidation can be found in note, one of the financial statements. Public sector accounting standards use full accrual accounting, which. Differs from certain aspects of the city's budget presentation, like consolidated entities and the accounting treatment for capital assets, reserve transfers, and debt. For more information on the differences

between financial reporting and budget reporting, please refer to the latest psas report approved by council in February 2024. In 2023, there were two new financial reporting standards implemented by the city. The first is PS 32 80 asset retirement obligation, also known as the ARO. The city has adopted this standard effective January 1, 2023, using the modified retrospective. Method. This means that the city's 2022 financial statements have been restated to show the ARo in effect as of January 1, 2022. The ARO includes standards. Sorry, the ARO standard requires that a liability is recognized when there is a legal obligation to incur retirement costs related to tangible capital ass. Assets and a reasonable estimate of the cost can be made. Included in the ARo liability are the retirement costs for landfill, postclosure obligations, fuel tanks, wells and asbestos removal within cityowned buildings. The city engaged consulting support to help with the implementation of the new standard. A thorough review of the city's assets was completed to identify which assets were within scope of the standard and to

help with the final valuation of the liability recorded within the statements. At the end of 2023, the city has an aro liability of 10.2 million. Which consists of 6.1 million for landfill. Postclosure cost 153,000 for fuel tanks and wells and 3.9 million for building asbestos removal. The previously listed landfill. Postclosure liability is now included within the ARo and is no longer a separate line item on the financial statements. Staff will consider whether there are adjustments required to the existing financial strategies based on new information identified through the ARR work and will report back as part of the 2025 budget confirmation. If necessary. Our consolidated entities also assess the impacts of the ARO standard on their financial statements and completed adjustments as applicable. The second new standard implemented by the city in 23 is PS 34 50 financial instruments and related standards. The city adopted this standard January 1, 2023, using the prospective method, which means there were no restatements made in 2022 related to this standard. The financial instruments and related standards provides new financial

reporter requirements for various types of financial transactions. This standard was analyzed internally by city staff and reviewed by our auditors, and it was determined that no financial reporting changes were required in 23 due to the nature of the financial instruments, the city holds at December 31, 2023. However, new risk disclosures were included in the 2023 financial statements, and there are in note 21. Our consolidated entities also assess the impacts of the financial instrument standard and completed the adjustments. As applicable. I would now like to highlight a few items on the statement of financial position. The city continues to have a healthy financial position. With strong reserve balances, low levels of debt, stable investments in GJR and GMHI and growing tangible capital assets. It's important to highlight that over the coming years, the city expects to see debt levels rise, tangible capital assets increase and reserve balances decrease as significant capital projects are completed over time. These changes. May result in a net deficit position as financial liabilities outpace the accumulation of

financial assets. The conversion of financial assets into tangible capital assets is being driven by the collective work to unlock and execute the capital program at a faster pace than previous years from a highlevel perspective. The future. Expected changes on the city's balance sheet will correspond to the implementation of service. Delivery master plans and asset management plan. The last area I'd like to highlight on the statement of financial position is deferred. Contributions as there was a significant increase in 2023. These funds are received each fiscal year and are deferred until the expenses incurred. The largest items making up deferred contributions are development charges. Canada Community Building grant funds provincial gas tax grant funds Parkland dedication and community benefits charge funds in 2023, there was a significant increase in deferred contributions, which was largely driven by development charge inflows. Various factors drive this increase, including development charge collections. Interest earned on development charge reserve funds and transfers for legislated exemptions and discounts. As part of the 2024 to 2033 capital plan. This revenue has been allocated to projects and staff expect these balances will decrease over the

coming years as the funds are put into use. I would now like to end this presentation by discussing some of the key financial indicators the city measures using the longterm financial framework pillars of sustainability, vulnerability, and flexibility.

Sustainability is the city's ability to maintain required services in the present and future. Vulnerability is the city's ability to be resilient to challenges while maintaining city operations and flexibility. Is the ability of the organization to adapt to changes and capitalize on opportunities within the operating environment. Under the sustainability pillar, we look at the cash. And investments to reserve and reserve funds ratio consolidated net financial assets and the asset consumption ratio. The cash to reserve ratio tells us how well the city is managing cash flow and its ability to meet the city's financial obligations. A higher ratio indicates excess cash flow and the ability to meet current obligations. The minimum target for this ratio is one to one. Which means that for every dollar in cash, investments. The city has $1 in reserve and reserve funds in 2023. The cash and investments to reserve and reserve funds ratio decrease to 1.17 to one from 1.21 as shown by the red arrow, but the city still remains above. The established target as shown by the green circle. Total consolidated net financial assets increased by 1.5 million in 2023, as shown by the green arrow. While the city

does not have a set target for this metric, a lower increase in net assets, tells us the city is reversing the historical trend of accumulating financial assets at a much faster pace than financial liabilities and is converting financial assets into. Tangible capital assets. This demonstrates that the city is making significant progress on its capital plan and asset backlog. The asset consumption ratio tells us how our assets have aged within the fiscal year. An increasing ratio tells us that our assets are aging faster than we are replacing them. The asset consumption ratio remain the same in 2023. While the city has no official target for this ratio. No change tells us that the city replaced assets at a faster pace than previous years and reverses a trend of increasing. An increasing asset consumption ratio in previous fiscal years. This is again confirmation that strategies put forth are working within the city. Under the vulnerability pillar. The first metric is federal and provincial contributions as a percentage of total revenue. In 2023, contributions from federal and provincial governments was 17.4% of revenue. This is a decrease from 2022, where the percentage was 17.7, as shown by. The

Green Arrow. Higher levels of federal and provincial funding were received during the pandemic and throughout the pandemic recovery, which temporarily increased the percentage of revenue from federal and provincial sources. The more reliance independence a municipality has on federal and provincial contributions. The lex flexibility the municipality has and there is a. Greater financial risk to the organization. Should contributions be reduced or eliminated? This is an important metric to continue monitoring as more grant opportunities are rolled out by upward levels. Of government and in some cases, partially replacing reductions to city's own source revenues like development charges. Tax arrests as a percentage of taxis levied is an important financial indicator of municipal economic health. And indicates the ability of taxpayers to meet their financial obligations. Tax rares as a percentage of taxes levied increased to 2.8% in 2023 compared with 2.25% in 2022. As shown by the red arrow, the driver of the increase in 23 was due to a large tax payment for 2023 that was received in 24 instead of 23. Even though the percentage increased, the city still remains well below the municipal average of 4.7%. Which is the city's target, as shown by

the green Circle and Guelph. Continues to have extremely low levels of tax rares. The final metric under vulnerability is return on investment. In 2023, the city's return on investment was 3.44%, which is an increase over the 2022 return on investment of 2.15% as shown by the green arrow. The increase in 23 is primarily driven by market rates. As interest rates remained elevated, market rates are expected to decline in 2024. In future years as the bank of Canada reduces interest rate. The city uses a tiered approach to investing, which means. Elevated levels of returns may continue in the short term but will decline in future years as rates decline and reserve balances are drawn down by capital spending. The third pillar of the long term financial framework is flexibility. The metrics associated with this pillar were discussed extensively in the year end reserve and debt report, which is why those metrics were not included in today's presentation. Thank you for the opportunity to present highlights from the 2023 consolidated financial statements to you today. Today. I ask you to approve the financial statements and attachment one of Report 2024. Two seven. Two. I will now turn

the presentation over to Matt Bettek, partner at KPMG, to discuss the findings of the 2023 audit. At the conclusion of his presentation, both Matt and staff will be happy to answer any questions you have. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. We appreciate your presentation. And, Matt, we see you on the screen. Can we just test your audio? How does this sound? Yes, you sound great. Perfect. You're coming through clear. So. Thanks for joining us, and we'll turn it over to you to walk us through this. Okay. That's great. Thank you. And good evening to council. And thank you. For receiving us here today. I'll take a few minutes to walk through our presentation, recognizing that council has had an opportunity to view the materials in advance. I will be available to answer questions throughout, if that'd be the pleasure of council, but. As Tisha said, I will be available for questions at the conclusion. Before I get into it, I would like to thank Tisha and Shannon, Tara and the rest. Of the finance team for their cooperation and assistance in allowing us to complete our work. Certainly, we wouldn't be able to be

here today. To present this report if we didn't have the excellent cooperation that we did. And so if I could get clerks to advance down three slides, please. Sorry. One more. Well, I won't focus on any of the technology items. Identified here. I will sort of press upon the fact that we do continue to build technology into our audits and using various technological tools. To both. Improve the audit quality. And the response to the risks that there may be errors or mistakes in the accounts with. An increasing volume of electronic financial activity happening. We need to use more technology tools to respond to the fact that there could be risks there. Next slide, please. So we did prepare this report some weeks ago, and at that time, We did have a number of items that we were still working on to complete our audit. I would say. Through most of these things, and we're at the sort of the final stages of just cleaning up

final matters now. We expect to be in a position to issue our audit opinion within the next day or two. Following approval of the statements by council. In the financial statements. Our audit report is expected to be a clean audit opinion, so no qualifications or modifications. And we do know that that draft report is included in the agenda materials. Next slide. This slide, we do touch upon our response to the new accounting standard that was very well described. By staff, and this is for us at retirement obligations. And so here we're looking to make sure that. How management and staff applied that new accounting standard to the financial statements make sense. We tested a sample of the items to make sure. That. They were both in existence and were complete. And we made sure that the estimates that were used were reasonable and based on the best information held by the city. Next slide. As we reported in our planning report back in the fall, we are required to consider the risk that there could be a misstatement in the financial statements due to an

intentional act by staff. We call this the override of internal controls. And regardless of how good any control structure may be there still is an opportunity. Potentially incentive or rationale to intentionally mistake the accounts. We have a variety of responses, including some of our technology tools to look at entries and transactions through the accounts, looking for items that appear to be high risk. Where those are identified, we look at them in their totality to make sure. There's no untoward activity going on, and we have no findings to report, which is a good story. Next slide. Here we talk about the various post employment and retirement benefits that the city has. So this is consisting of the sick leave plan, the WSIb plan. As well as. Health and dental benefits that are offered to certain retirees. These plans require the accounting assistance from an actuary to calculate the amounts that will be paid. Well into the future. We do rely on the work that's performed by the third party actuary, and we've identified, though that firm

in our report. But we do look at the underlying assumptions and data to make sure that the information that's being used to calculate these amounts are reasonable. In all circumstances. And again, no findings to report. Next slide. For tangible capital assets, as Tisha mentioned, is an area of increasing balance for the city and certainly the largest. Single item on your financial statements. So we do look at the process by which the city. Includes capital assets on its financial statements. We test a sample of those to underlying contracts, purchase orders, invoices to make sure they do make sense. We also test how the amortization expense is reported. That is how the assets come down. In value over time and make sure that the presentation and disclosure of that information is in accordance. With the standard next slide. The obligatory reserve funds and deferred revenue. Again, this is primarily the development charges, as was described earlier. And this requires a special response because. The revenue from development charges is recognized in the financial statements on a time frame that's different than the cash received. So as we

see the cash being received, but unspent that accumulates in the deferred revenue account. But then, as it's spent on the growth related projects. It comes down and is recognized for revenue. So there is some judgment. There's also a greater propensity to error in this area, but based on the work we performed. We didn't find any problems. Next. The liabilities for contaminated sites has been on the statements for a few years now, and these relate to sites where there is contamination that requires cleanup by the city for properties that are no longer in productive use. This is a little bit different from Aros because those relate to assets. That are in productive use again. These requires a significant amount of judgment and estimate, and we look at the underlying. Data that builds up, builds up those amounts. The liability did decrease slightly this year from last year. Recognizing that amounts were paid for some remediation as well as some changes to estimates were reported. Next slide. For taxation and user charges. These are big revenue items. We primarily. Develop external expectations as to how those should be recorded and compare them to results and make sure that things are checking out the way we would expect.

Next slide. Payroll and operating expenses. Again, we use a variety of detailed testing as well as predictive analysis. For the payroll. We look at full time equivalents, we look at wage rates, we look at contract amounts, recompute what the amount should be, and then compare them to the actuals. To make sure they're within a reasonable tolerance. And they were the next slide. Here. We're just disclosing that as part of our work. We did not identify. Any items that required correction nor remain uncorrected in the statements. And so this is a really good thing. As I said before, there's a clean audit opinion, which is what you'd expect. But what this slide really means is that the information that we receive to do our work did not need to be adjusted or amended as a result of our work to come to the statements. That you received in your agenda materials. Next slide. This is the final slide that I'll report on. We are required to identify and report any significant deficiencies in internal control. And that we did not. So, again, a good thing. So

I always encourage councils when they're. Done listening to me that they take away sort of three things from the presentation, a clean audit opinion. No uncorrected amounts and no significant controlled efficiencies. We think this is a report. Card of the finance team based on the information that we saw, but certainly not a full blown assessment of what they do on a day to day basis. There are some additional slides in the presentation I don't think they're worthy of. Additional attention, so I'll pass it back over to the chair for questions or comments. Well, thank you very much. Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Taisha. Thank you very much for your presentation. Was that your first time presenting to us today. Yes, it was. You did a good job. Thank you. I practiced a lot. Well, I was wondering. I was like, this is the first time. Matt. You've been here too long. I don't have to say you did a good job. You did a good job, but I can do you, so thank you very much. Appreciate your work. Let me just go to our chair of audit for a moment. First. So to you, councilor. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. I do have a couple

of questions and a comment. Do you want me to put the motion first? Sure. Thank you. That the city of Guelph, 2023 consolidated. Financial statements and external audit findings. Report dated the 25 June 2024 be approved looking for a secondary seconded by Linda Bustille. Councilor Bustel. Apologies. Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor. To Mr. Beddge. Just three questions, I believe. Tax arrears trend has been identified as low. I was wondering if you could comment on that relative to elsewhere and Ontario at this point, how are we doing in a relative sense? So from the clients that I work with, we are seeing an increase to the tax arrears. As a percentage of the tax levy. So what you're seeing. Is not inconsistent. A combination. Of worsening financial picture. This is true as well as. Increased interest rates are causing that drag. There is a low risk zone identified by the province of less than 10%.

And the city is well under that. So the comments by staff saying that the city has got low tax rates relative to its peer group. I said that. Is quite true. I participated in another presentation yesterday that looked at some other southern Ontario. Municipalities, mostly lower tier but larger size and the average. Was about five. .5 or 5.6%. Amongst that comparator group. So for Ziggywelt to be at under 5% is a good thing. Thank you. A more difficult question. I don't think you can answer this entirely accurately. You made note of the liability for contaminated sites. My assumption? That's on page twelve of your report. That is. A. Challenging number to get to zero. We will never see a zero on the contaminated sites. We will always have them. Is that correct? And we will always have that liability. Well, in theory, no. It could be reduced. There's a few properties. That comprise the vast

majority of that liability. And should the remediation on those properties come to a conclusion and that there's no further requirement from a legal obligation to further remediate, then that balance would be reduced. To zero. Okay, thank you. Finally, the last question. Mayor Guthrie. Misstatements. If you could just remind me and remind others. What is the reporting threshold for misstatements. So we would accumulate and report anything over $500,000. We set a materiality at the beginning of the audit of approximately 10 million, and the threshold is 5%. Of that. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. The last. Thing that I just want to point out is something that actually Ms. Baker had written. And I think is fairly important for us to recognize. And. That is that 2023 has really demonstrated the unfortunate trending that municipalities continue to be forced. To take on downloaded financial responsibilities from the province and even the private sector municipal development revenues. Were stifled through Bill 23, shifting even more housing, enabling

capital costs away from the developer and over to general property taxpayers. As homelessness and mental health concerns grew to a state crisis in Guelph in 2023, provincial social service pandemic response funding ended, leaving Guelph taxpayers to fill. In that gap as well. Most importantly, as Ms. Baker states, through all this, I remain optimistic about our future, that we are doing well, and I think that this has been reiterated by Mr. Betting as well. Yeah. Thank you so much. Do you mind if I just do one quick follow up? Because I say this every year to Matt, as a question. Just based on councilor alt you have the materiality at the 5% or the $500,000. But if you find an error, you will drill down and drill down and drill. Down and drill down to find out where that dollar is, just to make sure that it's. Stated correctly, so. I ask this every year because there's always somebody that says, you don't look. At everything. And why aren't you looking at things that are mistaked under 500,000 you do if. You find it. You do that work, right, Matt? Correct. Yeah. We bring anything that

we find to. Staff. And every transaction, every financial account is subject to testing. Thank you. Okay. Sorry I interrupted you. Were you able to say something else? Okay. Thank you very much. Thanks, council, I work over to you. Thank you, Margotri. My question isn't for Mr. Betterage, it's for staff. So, just a question from the staff report. It says the city continues to have excellent liquidity. With a strong cash position, and the ratio of cash and investments to reserves and reserve funds remains in excess of the target of one to one. Is that? Situational at the moment where the financial statements were made. Going forward, do we need to be thinking about? Is the cash and investment position too high? Right? So I'm trying to think about. How we meet our obligations, but also how we tackle property taxes. Obviously. So what am I to understand from that statement. When I worked in insurance. You didn't want to have too much cash because. You wanted that money to be either generating revenue or being put to use, and so I can't. Remember. What the acronym was, but can you help me understand that line and

what it means now and going forward. Sure. Through the mayor to Councilor O'Rourke. So as we look at the next couple of years, we are currently executing some really major capital. Projects in the south end community center, the library. Major projects in water and elsewhere. And so when we're looking at the numbers and the financial statements for reserve positions and then reflected through to the investments and cash balances. Those are not factoring in. The commitments made through the capital budget. So that view. Is in the May 15 report that you would have seen in the reserves and debt report. And so we'll see over the next couple of years those cash and investment balances. Reduce and our capital asset balances go up as those projects continue to be executed. Okay. So the funds are earmarked? They're earmarked. Okay. Thanks very much. Thank you. And it's been moved and seconded already, so it looks like I might. Be able to call the vote here. Yes. Anyone against? Nobody. That's unanimous. Thank you to you both. Really

appreciate it. Appreciate your time. And walking us and the community through that. We are on to our next item, which is the single use items strategy phase two. And we're going to have. Just a quick verbal update. You got to start with us, Jane. Sure. So I can through you? Mr. Merit council just to give a quick update. I did send a memo out. Just after we had our last meeting, just in regards to. The addition of the reusable containers. What we had originally asked for in that memo is to actually. Revert back to the original recommendations from council and then add a third amendment that talked to. The going out and doing some engagement. So the concern from staff at the time was that we had not had a chance to go and do any engagement. With the restaurant community. And we had already been receiving some calls of concern. After that memo. Mr

mayor. You myself, staff council class and did have a meeting with some representatives from. The restaurant community. Just looking at my notes, they had numerous concerns associated with. Allergens. Washing hands. Contamination. Front of house. Back a house. No standard sizing. They were concerned with operational times associated with. Dealing with containers that are being brought from the outside, which hit their bottom line. And, of course, they already have a labor shortage, so that was a concern for them as well. Anyway, in the end, I think where we landed, as we were discussing that if we did do engagement. It sounded like we were going to end up there anyway. And what we would recommend now is reverting back to the original. Recommendations from staff. Okay. Thank you. How about we just at least. Get. Motions put on the floor to kick things off. Councilor Clausten. You're willing to move the motions just to put them on the floor. Thank you. And O'Rourke. Thank you. And I

know that there might be a couple of amendments going here, so just to kind of help us filter and stay focused as amendments come our way. It looks like councilor Galler had sent something around. And maybe I could ask councilor goer to maybe just ask our staff some questions, maybe. Just prior to putting it up. But before I go to you, councilor Goer, the clerks. Just want to speak for a moment. Go ahead. Through you, Mr. Marin. Thank you. I just want. To clarify what was just put on the floor. If it was the staff recommendations that Ms Holmes referenced or if it's the. Committee of the whole recommendations as included on the agenda. Well. I think we better go with the ones from committee. It's probably the best way to do it. Until a few minutes ago, we weren't going to do that. But now that there's. A potential amendment. I think that's the best way of going about it. Do you want to say something back to you, Mr. Mayor? That's no problem. It's. Obviously council's decision. It may be easier to build up from the original staff recommendations. To make additions than it will be to amend the committee of the whole

ones procedurally, but of course. Council's discretion. Yes, that's a good idea. Why don't we do that, everybody? So why don't we just go one at a time. Point of order migatry? Sure. I seconded. And I actually thought we were. Seconding. The original staff recommendation from that memo, so I'm happy to withdraw. Yeah, I was just about to get there. I was going to go through the process of having to do what I got to do, which is. Councilor Clawson, are you willing to withdraw just for now? We're going back. Sir, just so I'm clear to the committee recommendation, So not what's today before us on the agenda? Just to be absolutely clear, So I can go back and look at what those are now, and I'll withdraw. Thanks. Yeah. Perfect. I'm basically going to build the motions one at a time. Okay, so. I'm not leaving anything out or anything like that. It's just an easier way. Of going about it. So if you're willing to remove. Sorry. Councilor Rorf has already said Melinda remove. I have to officially ask, does any member of council against removal? That's nobody. Thank you very much, everybody. So

now I'm going to ask for tabling. Of, I think the first one, which. Is if you could put up on the screen. Sorry, I'm just pausing for dramatic effect. Through you, Mr. Mayor. So we'll display the approval for. Clerk stop. This is slide twelve. That we're looking at. These are the original two recommendations put forward by staff at committee. Of the whole earlier this month. Yes. And so I'm just going to go one at a time just to make it. Easy, okay? So with some ability to move. Number one councilor downer. Okay, thank you. Seconded. Councilor Clawson. Okay. So remember. This is just the one that flew from committee. Okay, so I'll call the vote on that as anyone against. Nobody. Okay, we now have two extra. I'm going to call them topics right now. We have an amendment that I know Councilor O'Rourke wants to bring forward on sleeves and. Such. I'm going to go to that. Then. The second item I know is, like, containers. I'll go to that after that, and then we're done. Okay, so let me. Just turn. The flow over to counselor work. She can maybe just give us

a little bit of a preamble as to why she's tabling something, and then we'll table that. Okay, go ahead. Thank you, Mary. Guthrie. I just want to confirm that the second clause of that initial staff report is also on. The floor, right? That the single use items bylaw 2024, as amended, be approved. That one is on the floor. Through you, Mr. I thought we tabled one. I wasn't sure we tabled two. Through you, Mr. Murder. Councilor Rourke. That's correct. So only one was tabled. Number two is not the table. I know there is an amendment coming forward. Number two should be tabled. Prior to that, correct? Yes. I'm sorry. I paused because I wanted to stop at number two to give council work the opportunity, but yes. Everyone's right. I am wrong. We need to table number two for you to continue with. Your conversation. So would you at least table number two for us? Councilor Downer, would you? Second that that's been tabled, but now I am sending it over to council or. Work for a potential amendment. Great. Thank you, Mary Gustri. So over the course of the last couple of weeks, we received correspondence from the Retail Council of Canada, and they express. Expressed some concern. Around requiring someone to ask for something like a sleeve that goes around a coffee cup. Because that sleeve actually makes it easier to hold the

cup because the contents are hot. And so I think that's fair. I think they have processes and they have reasons why they're putting that sleeve around the coffee cup to protect someone, and in fact, We shouldn't require someone ordering a cup of coffee to ask for that sleeve. If they're. Not aware of that. So the first part of my motion is to remove the word. Sleeves from the accessory food wear item definition. Yeah. And then the second piece of the motion. Section 5.1 was not terribly clear. With respect to whether those orders needed to be made in house or inside the building, or whether the beverage was made inside the building. So staff have proposed some language to make it clear that a business must accept a customer's. Reusable drink cup for beverage orders made in store for beverages consumed on or off. A business premise unless served through a window to a customer at a drivethrough or purchase for delivery. And the reason for that? Is both a staff and a driver in a

vehicle. If a hot beverage is being passed through, that vehicle. And may or may not have a lid on it, et cetera. I think there is a safety component there for both the person serving and the person receiving. So I am moving the amendment. To remove sleeves from the accessory foodware item definition and that clause 5.1 be amended to state, a business must accept a customer's reusable drink cup for beverage orders. Made in store for beverages consumed on or off of business's premises. Unless served through a window to a customer at a drive through or purchased for delivery. Okay, thank you. Councilor Koran has agreed to second that. So can I call to vote on this? Then. Pretty straightforward, no, Councilor Donner first. Could I just ask for a response from staff? On that. Are we okay with those changes? Through the mayor. Yes. It didn't specifically come up as we were having our engagement, but I'm talking and looking at some of the correspondence that has come up, it seems to make sense to us, so we're in support. Okay, I'll call the vote

then on that. Is anyone against that amendment? Nobody. That's unanimous. Thank you. So now I'll call the vote on number two. As amended. Okay. Is anyone against that? No one. That's great. Okay, so that passes unanimously too. And so then the third and. Last sort of topic was what was flown from committee, what was around reusable containers. And so I'm going to turn over to councilor Galler and to Clawson. In a second, but just to give a little bit of preamble. There was actually, I believe it was unanimous support at committee to look to actually implement this in the bylaw. As our acting Cao mentioned, a lot has kind of transpired between then and now with a lot of concerns. Which. My own opinion, only was they were quite valid. And. They were from known restaurant owners. In our city. That actually are probably some of the best environmental restaurant owners going, and they really explained quite well. A lot of the concerns that they had. Unfortunately, in a way. Because I think we're all

trying to do the right thing on it. So as our deputy. Sorry. As our acting CIO mentioned, There's kind of an option. I think this is where councilor Galler and clausen. Might want to have a discussion on. Is. There validity in actually doing engagement between now and next year? Around this issue to see if maybe something could happen. Or do you think we might end up in the same kind of place that we're. At right now. Which is, in other words, go do an engagement. But it probably won't change anything. And then so that's the debate that maybe in discussion that we could have. Councilor Galler. I'm going to turn it over to you on this theme. So why don't you go ahead? With due respect to worship. My fellow counselor had her hand up first. If I could allow her to say her piece. I have questions, I mean, mainly from the staff. Report. Which spoke favorably. In the support of the recommendation. Okay, well, let me just ask either one of you. Are you actually wanting to table a motion to try to actually. Have formal engagement on containers between now and next year, because if you are, I'd rather just get to

the debate and the discussion by actually formally having it tabled. So one of you table it. Okay, let's have it up on the screen, then. That stop be directed to conduct additional engagement and research with respect to the inclusion of reusable. Containers as part of the single use items bylaw and report back to council prior to the effective date of the single use items. Phase two, timeline of March 1, 2025. Okay, so. It's been tabled. And so. Is there any questions on that from anyone? Councilor Fossan, I'll go to you first. Yes, thank you. Through you, Mr. Merritt. Staff I just had a question. Looking through the memo with regard. To. There's some feedback that was collected from the town of Bamf, and it said that anecdotal feedback from bams. Includes the requirement to accept reusable cups and containers, and it's been well received. By businesses and residents and. They're continued to be encouraged to remember to bring their reusable container. I'm just curious if we've had the opportunity to connect with any of the

staff. At the town of Bamf to talk to them about some of the challenges that they might have been having so far with the program, other than the anecdotal feedback that seems to be positive. So maybe I'll start through the merita to council class. And again. We have not had a chance to do any fulsome engagement on that yet. I don't know. If my colleagues here have had a chance to reach out to Banff in between when we had committee of the whole and now. And they have. So I will let them comment on that because we had written the memo before. We had a chance to do that, so I'll turn it over to. The mayor. So we have contacted staff from the town of Bamf, and that is their anecdotal feedback since we were here earlier this month, so it has been well received. However, I think there's still an opportunity for further engagement within our own community as they did extensive engagement with their community as well. Okay. And so just to clarify, then, there is an opportunity still to do some engagement here with the community. We did meet with Restaurants

Canada, and we definitely met with some local restaurants. And I completely respect their opinions, and I think there's some really valid ones here. But. I guess my question is. Is there still an opportunity to do engagement? And is there potentially an opportunity, this is a second question, to create a program that's not necessarily mandatory because in some cases, it might not make sense for some businesses to participate in a program like this. So maybe I'll start so through the mayor to council class. And again, there's always an opportunity to do engagement. And when we wrote the memo right after the committee of the whole meeting. We had heard. The concerns and. That was our recommendation is to go out and do engagement because we hadn't done it. After that memo had been written. Like I said, you were in that meeting council class and with us, and we did hear. Some valid concerns from some of the restaurant. Representatives. And so we were starting to think that even if we did do engagements, Are we

going to end up in the same place? And what we were trying to do is. Also be cognizant of staff capacity as well, because this was not on anybody's. Work plan. So if it's the will of counsel for us to go and do engagement. We had committed to do that prior to March 1, 2025. That was when. The bylaw was to be in place, so you won't lose any time. But we're happy to do that. The other part of it is too. Mr. Mayor, I forgot to mention was that we also said that we could do an educational component as part of our website as well. For those to provide some sort of guidance for those who do want to participate, rather than making a bylaw where everybody has to participate. So that gives the restaurant some choice on whether they want to continue with a program like that or not? Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I certainly appreciate that component of it because. The mandatory piece. I know for some businesses. And what we heard. From some of the restaurants is that there are certain components, from an operational perspective, that could be quite challenging. But the educational piece is something certainly, that I think we can take advantage of. I'm happy to hear from

my fellow counselors on this as well. I still think there's an opportunity here for engagement and for learning from the community. I think Walf has always been a leader in sustainability, and I think that. We're not going to lower our waste by not looking at programs like this and not promoting these types of behaviors. If we had looked at programs like this 25 years ago, I think that with the use of styrofoam and other non recyclable materials, we would have been having a totally different conversation. So the conversation needs to continue and I think this is a piece that can help continue the conversation. And, of course, I don't want to add unnecessary burden to a lot of these businesses who I know. Are already struggling a lot in the current economic situation. However, we do have a very real issue. With single use items in landfills. And I think that looking at all opportunities to reduce what's in our landfills and what we're going to have to deal with for. Years to come is something worth exploring, but definitely open to hearing from my fellow counselors as well. Thank you. Before I continue, I'd

like to just ask the movers. Is your intention. To. Is your motion an intention to engage? To encourage. Or to engage, to create a bylaw. Like there's a big difference here. I think I'd like to just go back. To what the original. What's in the agenda for today? And I think that. In the memo. It was to. Do the engagement before we approve the budget. Approve the bylaw? Rather sorry. Before we continue, please put the motion back up. If we're going to have a discussion, we just need clarity, that's all. It's okay. Just trying to make sure we're all focused on the right thing, because. Your motion says to direct them to do additional engagement and research with respect to the inclusion of reusable containers as part of a bylaw. But what I'm hearing and. Seeing a lot of nodding of heads about is engagement to encourage engagement to. See if there's the ability for

some to maybe buy in on this. I think I just want to make sure that the movers are moving. A motion here. That's really what they want to do. Do you want an actual bylaw at the end of the day to come forward? Because we've heard from our staff that that might be very difficult if you want an engagement process. That includes. Communication, encouragement website. That is a different thing, and. That wouldn't be aligned with what you've tabled. It's either an either or or. It's both. Like, I'm just trying. To help us make sure you're getting what you want. So I'll go to the movers one more time, councilor clause, and then gor. Yes, if you go. Into the I think that perhaps what the appropriate motion would be is the staff recommended motion that. Is in. The motion amendment memo. And it says three that staff be directed to conduct additional engagement and research with respect to the inclusion of reusable containers as part of the single use items bylaw and report back to

council prior to the effective date of the single use items. Phase two, timeline of March 1 2025. And that was the motion that I was referring to. I'm not sure how the other one. I think that one was just in the agenda. That clarifies. I think our clerks are trying to determine. That we think that you just read out something that is exactly what you guys tabled, which is fine. I just want to make sure. Just 1 second, councilor Gor. Yes. I think the best way to answer this question right now is how is staff interpreting this motion? If it passes. Through to the mayor. So interpretation of this is that we would engage for the purpose of implementing a bylaw change with respect to reuse containers depending on the feedback received. Yeah, I would agree. An education component for encouraging the use, which is be a public education campaign. It wouldn't be for the intent of a bylaw amendment. Okay, so we have clarity,

which is fine. That's what we need here. Okay. What's? Tabled is to try to actually implement a bylaw. Compared to if you want to do something different. It would be more education, communication, encouragement, campaign. Okay, so I'm going to go to councilor Galler. Your worship. We also heard, as well as representatives from food services and from the food industry. Represents from businesses that have reusable container services. In our community, there are a couple of different useful food container services. So I think this is not necessarily looking at everyone bringing their own tupperware. But actually, if the takeaway container is returnable, Through a third party service. I think that would be an excellent alternative. So if I could ask. From staff. When you look at the motion, would it be exclusively take away containers that I bring? My own tupperware? Because that's not what I read. I read that. It would actually be any type of reusable containers as they go. Through the merit to councilor

Galler, we would consider this motion, including all options for reusable. Containers. Thank you. Thank you. With that in mind, your worship, I would love to explore the possibility of having this become the. Bylaw. Is it possible to. And it may very well be that it's not possible. For certain types of businesses, maybe fast food places, but it may be a requirement that other businesses. Are required to use of service that provides reusable containers. Therefore significantly limiting the amount of containers that end up in lunfill. Okay, I got a few more hands up here in the room, so I'd like to. Try to focus us on getting to a conclusion here. So I'm going to go to councilor Alt and then councilor O'Rourke. Thank you, mayor Guthrie. As the discussion, the worthwhile discussion. On reusable containers goes on. I'm getting a bit confused about exactly what it is that we're trying to do here. And the question I believe I have to have for clerks is. Can you have a bylaw that is voluntary for certain

businesses? Through you, Mr. Mayor. I'll do my best to answer that question. You could, I suppose, put a clause in a by law that said voluntary. But then there is no, it's a suggestion, not a bylaw. At that point, of course, many of our bylaws have no specific enforcement provisions, but that doesn't make them voluntary or non mandatory, that lack of enforcement. So generally speaking, I think that would be unusual at the very least. And thank you very much. I appreciate that clarity, actually. I completely support the intent of this, but I cannot support the motion as it is presented. It strikes me that we're being incredibly ambiguous about. What it is we want to do and. We're leaving people with the very peculiar notion that. You are subject to a bylaw if you want to be, but aren't necessarily subject. To the bylaw. Thank you, Councilor O'Rourke. Thank you, Mary. Through you two staff. I'm just wondering how this fits with all of the blue box transition that starts January. 2025, I believe. So,

yes, we want to reduce the number of containers that are used initially, right? Definitely. But won't the people who are using or issuing those containers have to find some mechanism to bring those back and recycle them. So a how does it work with the blue box transition? And b. Does it become a moot point? If the emitter has to take it back sometime. Right? So I'm just wondering how. Those things fit. So through the marriage counselor O'Rourke, the blue blocks transition. The regulation only applies to the residential sector. So if a resident brought it home and put it in their blue box. It would go through the recycling program. And 40% of the waste generated in Ontario is residential, 60% is commercial. Okay. I was trying to think, is there a way to do this education through that ici? Through that blue box

transition communication. But it doesn't sound like it aligns. So another question in that vein. So through Umar Guthrita staff. This is a big change. That's coming to golf. What kind of capacity would you have to go and consult with? Restaurants on this sort of very specific item that's laudable, and I'd love to see it in place. But do you have capacity to do this in this current context? Through the mayor to Councilor Rock. We do have students that were onboarding for the fall. For the purpose of the education campaign related to this bylaw, if it's to pass. And at that time, that would be when we'd be doing the engagement. So it's, the same stock going out. They're already at the business. They can ask these questions. Okay, so, three year Marigot, I have a question for the movers. Rather than put it into a bylaw where I think you would have to specify these types of business, but. Not those types of business. Why not just leave the education component and make it a competitive advantage for businesses that want to offer this. So there's a grocery store near me. They have the friendlier containers. I think that's fantastic. Or I go to bulk barn and I bring my spice containers and. Stuff like

that. So rather than. Impose a bylaw that creates a patchwork for businesses across the province. Really? And it's especially difficult for franchisees who have very specific processes and rules, and they time all their stuff, right? Why not? Insent an appeal to the better angels. Than regulate. To the mover, you can respond. I think, from my perspective,

I was just to look at what staff provided in the report. They did refer to Bamp, who does have a bylaw that talks about reusable. Food wear. And I did start looking into their bylaw and some of the language that they were using. And there's a lot of language around having a policy about reusable containers and having a written policy, so in that case. I'm not sure. I didn't go and look at individual restaurants and what their individual policies are and what they can and can't accept. But. I personally was curious about. How they implemented it, since they were the only example provided. From a bylaw perspective, so there is some precedent with regard to it being a bylaw. So that was. My first line of thought. My second line of thought on this is that, yeah, I do believe that there is an educational component to this. And if it comes to, we look into the engagement and we're saying, like, no, it shouldn't be a bylaw. It really should be. Yes. It's a competitive advantage. And I know that there's already a number

of people who do use reusable container programs. We have. A popular provider here in Guelph, a friendlier company, and I know that they provide. A great service to many of the businesses in Guelph, and people like to use it. So I do know that. That's something that can exist. I think that I just didn't want. To preclude the idea that. A bylaw might be possible. I didn't want to leave that off the table. But I'm also happy for the staff to recommend that it not. Be. I don't know necessarily, if this is the right moment for it to be mandatory. But I definitely think that it is worth exploring and that there might be language that does reflect our intention here. So just a comment. Margotri, if I may, I'm uncomfortable with the language of the motion because it does assume. That it would be put into a bylaw. For companies even that would really want to do this. It does create additional work for them to create new policies and all of those things.

That a lot of small restaurants couldn't necessarily do. So. I like to hear from staff on how we could appeal to people's better angels through. Their conversations in the fall. I fully support that, but I can't support. The amendment that's tabled. Okay, look. I can call the vote on this. But I know some heads are nodding. But.

I'm trying to actually build consensus a little bit here and compromise. I'm wondering. If potentially an amendment might be worthwhile to remove the portion in the middle of your motion. That talks about the actual crafting of a bylaw. Remove that out and let our staff go and just do engagement and then come back with a report with what they find, and that's it. Then we take a next step after that. I think we'll accomplish what we're looking for. Kind of kill two birds with 1 st here. You're going to get the engagement you want with the details while the engagement happens. You're also getting the education, so that's kind of good. You're? Getting both of those things over this time frame, but. We're not sending staff away to actually draft an actual bylaw, so let's. Get the results back and then have another fulsome discussion about it and focus just on engagement. Right now, I'm wondering if there is a counselor that would be willing to move. An amendment, councilor busatill, and then councilor alt. Now I'm really sorry. I can't move stuff. And you're going to need to. Write. Something to the clerks to do that, but there's just basically a line in the

middle. There that could be removed by clerks. And then I think that amendment might help us get to a unanimous potential vote here. Where we just are sending away for engagement only. If that helps. I'm just trying to help us land on something. I'm seeing. Some nods. Can we just get the motion put up on the screen? So basically it would be. The removal of. As part of the single use items bylaw. And then just say, enter, report back to council, period. So once it's done, just report. It so it doesn't have to be. Yes. Our staff, for those online, our staff are all nodding their head in the room to see you're aware. So it's moved by councilor. Busatil, seconded by councilor alt to remove those pieces there and then, I think. We're landing on a place that. 's a bit more conducive to what we're trying to accomplish. If I could. Councilor Gibson, did you want to speak to that amendment? Yeah. Just a quick question to staff. That's okay. Yes, go ahead.

Thank you. Through Mr. Merrick. Question to staff. I just want to hear staff say that this is not a redundant motion, that this has not already taken place. And that the engagement that's being asked to be done wasn't already part of the previous engagements on this. I don't want this to be come out. We didn't get the answer. We want, so go back and engage some more. Thank you. So through the mayor to Councilor Gibson, we did not explore. Single, sorry, reusable containers. With businesses, it was mostly focused on beverage containers. Thank you. Okay, great. I'm very sorry. Staff out to clerks. Are we good with that amendment? I know that through you. Mr. Mayor. I'm not sure we've got it in writing. But we will display what we think is councilor. Is sending it, but I think if you've captured it, we could just ask councilor. Bruce till if he's okay with. The removal there so that stop be directed to conduct additional engagement and research with respect to the use of reusable containers and report back to council, okay? Does staff need a date in that? Would you prefer a date at the

end? Mr mayor. Our original plan was to do that for march the first anyway. So you can put a date in if you'd like. Because if it is going to become part of a bylaw, then we'd want to all do it at the same time. Okay, but you're not going to do that part to bylaw part. Again speaking to the amendment. Go ahead. I think because we've taken out that they're not actually preparing the bylaw. This time that it should probably come back. In good times. So that if we approve it, that then they can prepare the bylaw before. March. Right. So then it's all done at once. Right? So do we want to see? The report back. At? I don't know. If. If you're having students do it this fall, then. As soon after as possible, I guess. Is there a date that you think you can get the report back to council by so that we can then. I'm thinking of all the report writing issue. Because. It may be that. How difficult will it be to prepare that amendment to the bylaw? Once the reports, then I guess is my question. Sure.

I guess I was throwing James some big options. So typically, once we finish the engagement, I. Think we'd be in a place to know whether or not we had to draft a bylaw. Due to all the work back schedules, we would be drafting the report at the same time as drafting a bylaw. So in all reality, if I have something to do for February, I pretty much have to start. At beginning of January. Right. But that point and point in time, we would already be able to draft the bylaw. So you would probably, if you were recommending it, you would have. A draft in place anyway. You'd be coming back with a bylaw anyway, correct? This doesn't really change. Much, actually. Okay. Get it, though. Okay, but we're going to be making a decision. We're going to get a report before we approve it, and the bylaw will come. As something we can add on. Thanks. Okay. I'm going to call the vote then, on this amendment from Councilor Busatill. So councilor alt seconded it. Yeah, so is anyone against that amendment? No, that's great. That's unanimous. That's perfect. So now we'll just. Do it.

As amended. The main motion as amended. I'll call the vote on that is. Anyone against that. No. Okay, perfect. That's unanimous. And we landed at the right place there, so thank you. Very much for the discussion. And. I believe we are done. Yes. Okay. I don't want to reuse or single use or anything about that, ever. Again. All right, perfect. We are at the drill hall. And you know what? I know that there's some people that are been waiting, but. It's worthwhile for us to move around for five minutes. Let's just take. A five minute break. And move around a bit. Go to the bathroom, get a drink. Come on back. So we'll. Be back here. Just before. Between 740 and 745, please. Five minute break. Thank you.

Just put a 1 minute warning. One to two minute warning, okay?

Everyone. I'll call the meeting back to order. Thanks for the little break there. Okay, drill hall.

Drill hole responses to expression of interest and planned future use. We have three delegations. I believe they are all in person. Welcome. To Stephanie Bryanton. Michelle peak. And norma mendoza. And so, thank you. So, Stephanie, come on down. And then, Michelle, you're in the wings. And just so everyone knows, you have up to five minutes. And then at four minutes and 30 seconds, you'll hear a chime, a tear warning. Don't go over. The five minutes, or then I have to interrupt you, and I hate doing that, so just make sure you stick within that. And then once you're done, if you could stick around just. In case there's a follow up question from my colleagues or myself. Okay. So welcome. I'll turn it over to you. You go right ahead. Good evening. Council Anee Bozoo. Stephanie Bryanton. Indigenous that you jack and do dumb while Singa and Donjiba. My name is Stephanie Bryanton Cranklan from whitefish River. First Nations, Birch Island, Ontario. I first met many of you when you came into office in 2022. I hope you can recall the truth and Reconciliation Council orientation sessions we did together on Sat. Saturday

morning, where I outlined indigenous community need and calls to action on us as a municipality trying to set you up for success and responsibility to our community as our elected officials at this point. It should be no surprise to you that urban indigenous community members have been asking and pleading for decades for indigenous space gathering space, healing space, access to land and resources. We are often told there's no money and no buildings. But today we speak of the drill hall and the expression of interest process that was posted there is indeed a building, but no indigenous consultation or consideration. So let me address some of the things I have heard from council. Well, staff, the request for expression of interest process was engaged, affording all public the chance to submit interest. If you have not heard this yet, then please let me be the first to tell. You that this process is not accessible, not equitable, and it's a very definition of systemic oppression to ask indigenous community or any racialized community to provide a proposal that would be acceptable to the colonial structure that was. Built to kill us is unacceptable. The city designed an equitable process to ensure any community member could engage and not experience barriers there would have been more applicants on top of that at the June 4 committee, the whole meeting. A former city councilor, was further advantaged by a motion to receive $10,000. To be used to a

formal feasibility study. Nowhere in the expression of interest process said there would be a $10,000 grant applied. To a successful proposal for the formability feasibility study for the potential use of the drill hall. But staff? Why does the community have to be in competition with one another? Can everyone get along? And work together. If this council cannot acknowledge the systemic and structural existence of discrimination or the harm done to those. In equity deserving identity groups, then we have a much bigger issue. It is not possible for indigenous folks to be in competition with anyone else, as each and every one of you is on. Stolen land. I have heard many municipal staff across municipalities advocate that the municipal ass states we must be apolitical parties. And my response to that has always been. Here only apolitical and neutral to the system, to those the system is currently benefiting. I've been pleading with this council as internal staff, but now is indigenous community to engage. In your truth and reconciliation. Learning journeys. Now is not the time to paralyze and fear. As you have the responsibility under call to action number 57, to educate yourselves as public servants on the history of indigenous peoples, including the history and legacy of residential schools, the United Nations Declaration of the rights of indigenous. Peoples, treaties and indigenous rights. On May 1, Bill C 29 received royal ascent and

officially became Canadian. Law, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action are no longer an option to be ignored. Beyond your individual learning journeys. Call to action number 92 calls upon corporate sector in Canada to adopt the United Nations Declaration of the rights of indigenous people as. A reconciliation framework and to apply its principles, norms, and standards to corporate policy and core operational activities involving indigenous peoples in their lands and resources. I will close on this. I have a beautiful wife. Her name is Chanel de Roche, and she is an incredible artist and owner of necessary arts collective downtown Guelph. She took over the space at the beginning of the pandemic, when the previous owner is going to close. The studio. When the world was at most unknown and nothing was guaranteed my wife tirelessly applied to every grant anniversary we can find. Not successful in securing any. Funding. She has single handedly supported the art space for the betterment of the arts community. As we all recognize, there's not enough art space. And Guelph, the proponent, the city is considering has misrepresented. Not only my wife supported the drill hall proposal, but also many arts organizations across the city. Last week I had the privilege of attending my wife's convocation as she earned the rights and privileges of a master of fine arts. Alongside her, Jason Harrow, otherwise known as canadian rapper Cardinala Fishell earned their honorary doctorate degree for his contribution to the

arts. During his remarks he spoke to a quote and said, the creative adult is the child who survived. I felt those words so deeply in my soul as I knew exactly what they went. But my heart filled with so much grief. My people and people have many children that didn't survive. We have yet to find all the residential school kiddos that never returned home, like the unmarked. Graves that were discovered in cantaloupe CC as you folks consider what it's like to be in a creative adult. In Guelph. Also remember the Indigenous Peoples Canada committed cultural genocide of who didn't. Survive and could never have the privilege of being creative. We have work to do. You have work. To do, to take the first step forward, to do right by indigenous community. I look forward to seeing the indigenous framework the city has hired a consultant to do. But the work cannot wait for. The framework. And ease to start today. Thank you very much for your presentation. Is there any questions at this time? Seeing none, thank you very much. Michelle Peak is up next. Come on down. And then, Norma Mendoza, you are in

the wings. Welcome. Thank you. And go right ahead. Whenever you're ready. Okay. I'm Dr. Michelle Peak. I have a PhD in love and belonging with a focus on queer indigenous and human rights context. I have a photograph. I've had a photography practice for twelve years and have been working in the community engage arts for a decade. Seven of those years as the founder and executive director of art, not shame. I've spent a lot of time thinking and writing about belonging through an equity lens. And now have the privilege in my work at art, not shame, in helping create equitable spaces. Of belonging through the arts. I'm here on behalf of 43 concerned members of the Guelph. Arts community about what take place on the committee of the whole on Tuesday, June 4 like the city and many in the community, we support the use of the drill hall for the arts and culture purposes and are excited by the possibilities such use presents. For achieving the goals set out in the city of Guelph's strategic plan. Culture plan and downtown revitalization efforts. We are concerned, however, with the city's decision to explore working exclusively with the center for Guelph center for Visual Arts and to provide them with $10,000 from the 2024 community investment Strategy

account. We believe decisions related to the use of the drill. Hall for arts and culture should be made in a community engaged way and want to caution against further perpetuating systemic inequity in the sector and contributing, contravening the city's own commitment to community engagement. The City of Guel committee engagement policy explains that involving the public in the decision making process related to matters that affect them and that they can meaningfully influence leads to better decisions that help the community realize its vision. The policy outlines the city's commitment to building relationships with and engaging community members from equitydenied groups who have diverse living and. Lived experiences. In the original rfeoi, the city made clear that no funds are available within their long term capital plan to support further restoration and revitalization of the drill hall. Nor would they be responsible for any costs associated with revising a proposal, say, through a feasibility study. The parameters set forth in agenda item six. .2.1 introduce the potential of significant financial investment from the city at the request of council, as well as the issuing of $10,000 to the GCVA when many of Guelph's long standing arts orgs are struggling to stay afloat. At the time of the rfeoi's

issue to the public, then potential applicants would not have had reason to believe that financial assistance in obtaining a feasibility study or further financial investment from the city would be available to them and would have made their decision to apply or not. To apply based on that knowledge, which is why we believe you have in front of you only. One proposal in a city rich with artists and arts organizations. While council is at will to make decisions on behalf of its constituents. We believe that the process by which we arrived here will exclude and has excluded the very equity denied community members that both our strategic plan and culture plan purport to prioritize. In thinking of action five of the strategic plan to provide excellent, equitable and barrier free services. Action 13 supporting community well being. And in the culture plan. Objective three uphold truth and reconciliation by supporting indigenous community members to reclaim exercise and share their cultural practices for which they need space. Objectives two and four of the culture plan to increase access to affordable space for artists to create rehearse, perform an exhibit, and prioritize equity deserving artists and audiences in municipal cultural programming. And significantly, space allocation. In considering these

actions and objectives. We cannot achieve any of these objectives or actions, at least not with integrity, transparency and accountability without involving said groups in the process. We believe it would be both short sighted and inequitable for council to move forward with their recommendations outlined in agenda item. 6.2. What I would like to acknowledge is the hard work and passion that has gone into getting us to this point, where a major city asset is being considered for arts and culture uses and for that we are grateful for and give credit to the advocacy of the GCVA and their delegates. They have opened for the community a very promising window of opportunity. The arts community recognizes the timeliness of this meeting and. Has come together in a constructive way to make sure that collectively. We are centering principles of access, equity and community engagement. It is important that any group, collective or organization be set up for success when presented with such an opportunity as we have before us, especially when considering the scale of the city's investment. We must ensure that the successful applicant has the organizational history, wherewithal and experience to meet. The eligibility thresholds of the sector's major arts and capital gra. Grants be led by or have existing relationships with equity denied community members and have a thorough understanding of and experience working.

Across diverse access needs. We strongly urge council to invite any interested group to prepare a proposal for the drill hall as an arts and culture space, allowing our arts community to pool our extensive experience in the service of a space that is truly for community and updating the terms to provide any interested applicant with the same resources or benefits being offered to the GCVA and to reallocate the. $10,000 funding to a city led community engaged feasibility study. Thank you. Good timing. Thanks. Just before you go, I just want to see if there's a question. Oh, yes, councilor. Busatill, please. Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentation. So my experiences with music and children's music and the experience with the Guelph Youth Music center again. An asset that came together. Suzuki strings, Suzuki piano, or many different groups. And they coalesced and they formed the Guelph. Youth Music center board of directors to operate. Is that part of your vision? I see a lot of groups with different strengths and abilities. But is there in the community that's overarching leader that can take on the operation. I can speak personally from. Our organization's vantage

point in our capacity. We certainly, as a community engaged arts organization, would be very well positioned in terms of alignment and values. But we also know our limits in terms of capacity. So what I imagine, and I can't speak for all 43 signatories, is that. There would be a collective of organizations, all of whom could potentially be anchor tenants. We're all paying for space in our various places. Leases come up. So I imagine that that's entirely a possibility, but it would involve collaboration across multiple organizations. Of which. This is already beginning behind the scenes, so, yes, just to follow up through the mayor, thank you. That's great. That's wonderful. And that's how the youth music kind of started as well. And so the next step, what I'm hearing from you, is the door. Is enclosed to coming together as a collective and taking that next step into governance. The rules and all those kinds of things. Is that kind of what you're picturing, or is it just tenants? That would need more community consultation, I would think. Thank you very much. Go ahead, councilor. Thank

you very much. Through you. Mayor Guthrie to Dr. Peak. Dr. Peak. I think I have three questions. One I'm going to try. Pull together. You made reference to equity deserving artists and. Equity denied groups. I was wondering if you could just expand upon those for me, please. The difference between the two or the similarities as well, perhaps. Yeah, I think there are two different terms for the same groups, okay? To whom? Are we referring? Yes. So I would say, at least for our organization and for many major arts. Funders. We have what are called priority groups, and so they have done the research in the sector to determine. Who are the groups that are least advantaged in the art sector for the OEC, for example, that would be. They call them new generation artists. That's under the age of, I believe, 30. Black, racialized and indigenous artists, artists with visible and invisible disabilities. In their case, francophone artists and also artists who live outside of Toronto. For our group, every group will define that somewhat differently, but they would all fall under the parameters of who. Leased benefits from the system, as is to put it rather plainly for us, we would also include in

that artist with mental health and addiction challenges. Newcomers street engaged, folks. So just expanding on that. You made reference to 43 groups or members of the arts community. Are you talking about? Those groups you feel were actually inadvertently excluded from the proposal which we received. Less than a month ago. Yes. Okay. And your group is art, not shame. Just enlighten me a bit. What's art, not shame. How does it fit? Into what? Your arguments. The arguments you've been making in terms of. Our experience and qualifications or the work that we do. Sure. And what anything else that you think might be of value, okay. So art, not shame, is seven years old. We're a community engaged arts organization in wealth. I think it might actually be useful. A lot of people use the word community engaged or community arts rather loosely. But the Ontario Arts Council and certainly our organization actually goes. By a specific definition, so let me just see if. I can. Of

course I can't find it. Oh, here we go. So, community engaged art practices are forms of collective artistic expression in this field. Individuals who aren't professional artists actively participate in the artistic process. And the artistic process is considered as important as the final product. Both the social and artistic outcomes of community engaged art have value. Community engaged art projects are often. Initiated by artists, but also may be initiated by community members or organizations. Their projects are undertaken for a variety of reasons, but they aim to strengthen social relationships, to mobilize social action to reclaim or invigorate specific cultural traditions, to share artistic practices to create new intercultural, artistic forms, to tell important stories, or to start a dialogue about a particular issue. I won't read the rest of the definition, but the main point being here. That by their very nature, community engaged arts. Engage with. Equity denied groups and practices to make the arts more accessible. So it's not the same thing as sort of like, here's a professional watercolor. Class. Come and take that. It's looking at the whole picture, the whole person. How can we engage community members, specifically those who have

been excluded from these practices or their practices? Have been historically. Denied, banned. Put down. How can we create art together? And then the process itself is where you get really great transformation. On. A social level and community level. I think I have two final questions for you. First of all, I'm not hearing you saying that you are opposed to the principle of using the drill. Hall as an art center. You are actually advocating. A broader inclusivity. Is that correct? Correct. Okay, that's an easy question, then. The next one. Perhaps through art, not shame or whatever. One of the concerns is the city has very limited funds. In order to support anything going into that center. Can you fill me in on how arts groups can maximize funds from elsewhere? Sure. We've been renovating for the last two years at Community arts Hub in downtown Guelph. So I'm intimately familiar with the funding opportunities for these kinds of capital projects. As I mentioned in my statement,

the eligibility threshold for. Those. Funders requires that an organization have a history, that they have project funding already before they're invited for operating or before they qualify for capital. So there are funds out there at the provincial and federal level. The federal level has a more appropriate funding envelope than the provincial. Right now, provincial would just be the Ontario Trillium foundation, but there certainly are funds available. But you have to be very well positioned to apply to those funds. What do you mean by well positioned? You mean, do you have a track record or you have. To have a track record for a lot of these funds. If you take operating, for example, because we're talking about both capital costs and ongoing operating so art, not shame, is seven years old. You have to get a certain number of projects funded before you can be invited to apply for operating from, for example, the Ontario Arts capital. So we had three successful project. Applications, and then we're invited to apply for operating, and that took six years. So you can't apply to those funds if

you don't have a history. As an organization or projects or a track record with that particular funding body, typically at the federal government. Same thing. The threshold is very high. I just spoke to the federal granting officer the other day. About this very possibility. And she was walking me through the various options, and we worked closely over the last six months, so I'm pretty familiar with what's required, thank you very. Much. Sorry for all the questions. That's okay. Thank you. And I'm not seeing any more questions. Thanks. For being with us today. I appreciate it. No problem. Our final one is Norma Mendoza. Norma, come. On, Ford.

Welcome. And, yeah, the green light is on in your mic, so you're good to go. Okay, thank you. Good evening, everybody. My name is Norma. My pronouns are she, her, I appear before. You today as a citizen of Guelph who is not only a supporter of the arts, but a longtime worker in the arts, I have worked in the visual. Arts for profit sector for my entire career, which spans just over 20 years. So I'm well aware of the capital obstacles such as real estate monetization of product and sustainability. That often confront artists and those supporting the arts. For half of my career, I have also been active in the not for profit sector. I am a board member and current board chair of a Toronto based multidisciplinary arts organization that serves those with lived or living experience in mental health and addictions in the arts sector, and I'm also a board member. And current co chair of the wealth based arts organization that you just heard of. Art, not shame. Which is a community engaged, multidisciplinary arts organization that for the past seven years as you know, has been offering accessible, transformative creative arts programming for equity deserving youth and adults Engelf in Wellington county. In both of these organizations that I am a

part of the mission and mandate is to ultimately create space. For creativity while in community to bear witness to each other's humanities as we create together. In spaces that are co cultivated as antiracist, antiopressive, safe, caring, kind and compassionate. And so it is not an understatement to say that these organizations and organizations like this with community led ethos. And practice, quite literally transform and save lives. And so I am here today to express my support for the use of the drill hall for arts and culture purposes and similar to those who have come before me. I am excited by the possibilities that a building of this size and location can offer the citizens of Guelph in nearby counties. Particularly for those who are most marginalized and may not have direct access to artistic creative community. Cultivating spaces. But the execution of how this initiative comes to be is incredibly important. If we are collectively digging the foundation for a long term arts and culture center that will best serve our diverse population. Are we doing so by our own standards? Are we doing? So by the city's standards? I speak about the city's community engagement policy, which outlines that the city will involve the public

and the decision making process related to matters that affect them and that they can. Meaningfully influence, as this ultimately leads to better decisions that help the community realize its vision and so I want to remind everyone here today that it is incumbent upon the city staff. To abide by this policy and meaningfully engage with those parties. And not just rely on the report or the opinions of one person or one group as is. The GCVA, those parties that I speak of that must be included in this process of conversation and engagement are the emerging current and future artists for whom this infrastructure will most benefit and serve. The workers and allies who have tangibly demonstrated a long standing commitment and contribution to the sector. Whose actions are many years long. And of course, those being the equity deserving or as is referenced in your policy, the equity denied groups. That exist in, in our community, which are folks being, which are folks that are black, indigenous, racialized. Queer and or disabled. Your policies, which by extension become our policies as supportive citizens, aim to be intersectional in their approach will, then so too must they

be in their application. Finally, I just want to make a note that as someone who has attended many such council meetings, on various topics the last four years. I want to point out that the city does not always engage with meaningful parties on community motions. When they should. Such was the case earlier this year. When there was a proposed public space use bylaw, as we saw to this controversial proposal that would restrict homeless encampments on city property. It drew public outrage and concern. Why? Because the city's utter because of the city's utter and complete lack of. Engagement with the community that this bylaw would most impact, which at that time was the housing and secure community. That was in February. And here we are at another meeting with council in June, discussing the importance of community engagement. I point this out as relatable feedback, but I also name it as an opportunity for the city and the staff to activate their practices within the policies and procedures as it relates to this current terms. That underpin these motions? So I look forward to, and I ask that a thoughtful approach be taken to meaningful community

engagement. That is transparent and diverse, so that all decisions include key stakeholders that are within and outside the community that this infrastructure will best serve. Thank you. Thank you, Norma, for your presentation. And let me see if there's a follow up for you. There is not. You're good to keep walking. Okay. Thank you. Okay, counsel. It is back to us. Now. There was. Six motions. That came. From. Committee earlier this month. They were not staff recommended motions. That were captured from committee, they were born from us trying to. Move through this issue as best as that we could. I will just state transparently that. The whole reason for committee is for. That sort of deep dive and discussion and debate to try to

figure out how we could move. Forward in any way, and the reason why it's at the beginning of the month and then we're here at the end of the month is to afford us that time to be able to wrestle with what we've done, to validate with what we've done. Consider new information. And I just want to state upfront that I believe that that has really taken place, like sincerely that's taken place. And our staff. Have answered a lot of questions from us as counselors. That have been wrestling individually, collectively, trying to figure out what is the best way forward, where there seems to. Be. Unity. Maybe not unanimous, but there's unity to a point of a majority of counsel anyways. Where we don't want to see the drill hall be put up for sale right now. I think there's some unity around that. And also around. This potential for something around arts and culture in that building. I think that. There's a spark that's been lit there for sure. So in saying that. There

is some council motions of an alternative nature that have been proposed. By our staff. And I think. It would be maybe best for us to look. To not table what has flown from committee. To here. And instead, let's start a discussion based on. Some new direction that might encompass some of those answers and the wrestling that we've done. As a council over the last few weeks. Saying that. And thank you for giving me that time. I'll just turn over to Councilor Downer. And recognition through to councilor Koran as well. That maybe. They can kind of pick the baton up from what I've said, to kind of continue. The conversation around maybe. A different direction that we could go. I'll turn the mic over to you. Thank you. Yes, we've heard a lot in the last month. And decisions were made at the last meeting. And I think I agree with you, Mr. Mayor, that. There's a lot of agreement around wanting to just give the

opportunity. Here or realizing the opportunities that we have in front of us that will probably rarely happen again. And that aligns with our cultural plan, not just this cultural plan, but the previous cultural plan. That was embedded in the parks and rec cultural plan, which called for a visual art center. So this has been around even before the platform. Kudos to. The Gulf center for Visual Arts. So coming forward and keeping this issue alive and saying don't. Sell it. So I do want to acknowledge that. But in the time between those motions, we've sort of discovered that. Okay, there are some gaps here. That in our community that we need to do. A much more broader and inclusive consultation, and that the city should probably take a leadership rule as I think one of our speakers mentioned. In that feasibility study and consultation about the cultural art center. So at that point, I'd ask to have the motion put up, and I will read it to make sure that everybody has a chance to hear it. And council Koran is going to second it, so.

It staff be directed to allocate up to 25,000 from the unspent. 2024 community investment strategy account to be used towards conducting a city led feasibility study and community engagement process for potential future art and culture uses in the drill hall and report back to city council no later than March 30. 1st 2025. And that the city of Guelph continued to own the drill hall building and continue to be responsible to fund and maintain the current state of the structural elements and primary systems estimated at approximately 125,000 annually. So my expectation is that. This process. Will include indigenous community and others. And be inclusive so that and it will be a city led through our engagement process. So that we have the time to do this properly and properly engage with the arts and culture. In the community. So I really appreciate everybody coming forward and rallying to this point because. I do think, having come

from our family of artists, It's important. Did you want to speak to the motion as the seconder? Absolutely. Councilor Downer has encapsulated a lot of that from what I heard in the community and from this council and from our staff. Over the last. Well, not just the last year or the last month, but. The whole presentation of the culture plan and the strap plan is that we do care about arts. And culture. And proper engagement protocols and community. And from this council, the adaptive reuse of the building. The retaining of community ownership, activating the culture plan. Bringing economic development and tourism to the downtown. Indigenous reconciliation. There's a whole package of really great things that can happen here. And the time is now. If we don't get this right, we've lost this. Opportunity. I think forever to have a community art space because there is not another single building that I can think of. Not

just in the downtown, but in our city portfolio, where this can happen. So if we don't. Take the time to get this right. It will be potentially generations before we have opportunity like this. So this isn't just a legacy piece for this council or from previous councils, this is. Our gift to the future. And let's get it right and take the time we need to do it. Great. Thank you, Councilor alt. And then pusatil. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. I will support these motions. And in doing so, I want to point out that I do want to thank, first of all, the creative arts center for providing the initiative to actually, quote, save the drill. Hall. I think that that's very important. Should not be missed. But I'd also like to thank the delegates who came forward tonight for the very expansive inclusive and thought provoking presentations. That were made that point out that art is not just necessarily that which is made, quote, by artists that are at the point of manifesting their arts, but also those that are manifesting many other things. I would also be remiss if I didn't point out that the points that were raised in terms of ensuring that the. Indigenous communities are consulted and the important points

raised about the need for inclusivity of the indigenous communities is equally important. What I see that we have here as a consequence of these motions. Is the opportunity to build something even better than what we saw in the first proposal, which was an important addition to the revitalization of. Downtown. This is an important revitalization. With inclusivity at its heart. Thank you, Councilor Caitan. And then Gibson. I'm sorry. I just skipped my friend. To the right. You're so close. Counter boost still first, then Katen, then Gibson. Thank you. And through the mayor, thank you to the delegations. I have a question, if I may, through the staff in the motion. When it speaks about feasibility. Just if the staff can reassure me, does that include governance? Because that is the need to build capacity. And cohesion for sustainability. If you could just reassure me that it's not just the economic feasibility of who can. Pay what for rent? That there is governance included in that. Through the merit of Council busatel. Certainly that would be something that we would consider. We haven't done a lot of

work on scoping what that would look like, but. I think that is certainly something that we can take away and make sure that we include Dana. And Tammy are nodding, so, yes. Thank you. That's all. Okay. Katen gibson. O'rourke. I'll also be supporting this motion. I thought it was really poignant. To when I heard the call out. On the types of process and how groups that are equity deserving wouldn't necessarily. Think that they could apply for more or that the money would be given. Because. In that category myself, I would not have thought of those things. So I really am looking forward to getting more inclusive feedback from all the groups. I thank the delegates. And I also thank the PCBA for the initial push to keep the building because I think it's. An important moment for Gulf. Thanks. Thank you, Gibson. And then O'Rourke. Thank you through Mr. Mayor. So maybe I'll just start by saying thank you to the members of the community

that came forward to speak. About the process that happened at community as a whole. I know at least myself, and I think maybe one other counselor did express a lot of concerns at committee all around the whole process of handing $10,000 to one group without any kind of open consultation or open consideration of other groups. So thank you for being. I guess the conscious for council didn't work at community of the vault. Being said. I am a little concerned about clause two. I feel like that is pretty presumptuous. That we would never. Consider selling the drill hall. I'm okay with clause one. I think. Doing some more engagement. On what could be at the drill hall is aligned with what we talked about at committee as a whole. But I would just remind council that clause two is council. Staff recommendation to us. That we consider selling that asset. So I'm just wondering why clause two is included and if that is sort of preempting. Anything that we find out. In the next couple of months with this public consultation. Are we making a conclusion on the drill hall before any kind of consideration? Of this public consultation. Maybe the outcome is that we don't

have a unified group and we should consider selling it. Why are we taking the sale of the item off the table at this time. Through the merit. Councilor Gibson, the intention of clause two was simply through the process of clause. One. And perhaps the wording, maybe in how we worded it, that got missed, but that is the intention that we will continue to own the drill hall building until. We report back to council so clause. Two is because we need to continue to own it. Through the time of doing the feasibility study when we report back to council no later than March. 31, 2025, we will come back to you with a report, at which time then the decision is still counsels on what to do. We could be exactly back in the same place that we are now. And you could be going back to the original staff recommendation, which is to sell. The drill hall when? We come back to you with that feasibility study at the end of March 2025. So the intention of clause two is simply to get us to the end of March 2025. So the intention is that we will retain ownership of it until then, at which time we will come back. To you and council retains the decision making authority. Okay. Thank you. So, Mr. May, I'll ask a very straightforward question. So it may be

a straightforward response. Regardless of how this consultation goes. There will not be a need for reconsideration. Vote on that second recommendation. Through the mayor? I do not believe so. And the clerk. I think everybody is nodding in agreement with what I have said, which is that there will not need to be a reconsideration. This simply gets us back before you by March 31, 2025, at which point you will have full decision making authority as to whether to retain the drill hall or to sell it. Okay, so maybe I'll ask clerk same question then. Just. From straight legitimacy of our bylaws and our regulations. If. Another vote comes up to sell the drill hall, and a counselor says that we've already voted that we will not be selling drill hall. Would that be requiring a reconsideration? Vote. I don't want to be walked into that situation tonight, thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor to councilor Gibson. One staff report back in March 2025. There would be no reconsideration. If there was a motion at that point to sell the drill. Hall a motion prior to that point would be a different situation. But in that specific

scenario, there'd be no reconsideration required. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And Councilor Rorca said that she does not need to ask any questions or. Say anything at this time, so thank you. I will call the vote then, on this. And just before I do, I just want to say that I think this is the best route to go. And. I'm actually excited to see what comes of it. So I hope it works. I actually do. I sincerely hope it works out. So with that, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? No, that's unanimous. That's great. Thank you very much. And now we're going to go to the bylaws council. Alt, would you mind? Moving the bylaws for us. Thank you. And I'll just see if councilor. Chu would be willing to second. Perfect. Moved alt seconded. Chu that bylaw's 2024 inclusive. 2093-8209-4020-9522-0954-2095-2095-7 be

approved. Subject to section two. Four, eight point eleven, bracket four of the municipal act. Through you, Mr. Mayor. And apologies for the interruption. I'll just note bylaw 20938. Is being approved tonight, as amended. That is a single use by. Thank you, as amended. Thank you. As stated as amended for that particular bylaw, already moved and seconded. Is there anything on the bylaws hearing and seeing? None. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against the bylaws. Hearing and seeing none. That passes unanimously. Who hasn't moved a motion tonight? I bet you councilor Katen hasn't. Moved to motion tonight. Aderman. Yes. And Ju is good a second. All right. He wants to stay here all night. All right. Moved and seconded for adjournment. Does anyone against. Nobody. That's unanimous as well. Have a good night, everyone. Thank you so much.