Affordable rental tax subclass and road salt advocacy

Thank you. Thank you.

All right, good afternoon slash evening everybody. It is Tuesday, September 16th, 2025. It is 530. We are here for our city council meeting and right off the top we're looking to move into a closed session. It's under only 2 items. The 1st 1 is appointments to transportation advisory committee in the economic development and tourism advisory committee, which is section 239 to be of the municipal act regarding personal matters about an identifiable individual, including municipal or local board employees. And the second one is the non-union municipal employee group compensation review. That's under Section 239 of the Municipal Act regarding labour relations or employee negotiations. Now, before I look to see if there's a vote to move into closed session on those two items, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for those?

I don't hear or see any. Before I ask for that vote, I do want to state that Councillor Karan has sent in regrets. And with that, would someone be willing to thank you Councillor Ault, thank you Councillor Claussen. So, it's moved and seconded, and I'll call the vote. Is anyone against moving into closed session? Nobody that's unanimous, so we will move into closed session under those two items only. We'll do a review or a high level review when I come back out of closed session. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, good evening, everybody. Just before we start the open session, we went into a closed session at 530, and we went into a closed session of Council under two items, the Appointments to Transportation Advisory Committee and Economic Development and Tourism Advisory Committee. And then also the other item was a non-union municipal employee group compensation review. And so even though we had the discussion in camera, we're actually bringing both of those items out here to vote on them publicly. Okay. So I'd like to start with the appointments to the Transportation Advisory Committee and the Economic Development and Tourism Advisory Committee and Councillor Kayton is going to table that for us. Thank you. I'd like to table that Nicole Detler and Chelsea Nwals be appointed to the Economic Development and Tourism Advisory Committee for a term ending November 2026 or until such time as

successors are appointed and that Joel Meyer and Chelsea Edwards be appointed to the Transportation Advisory Committee for a term ending November 2026 or until such time as successors are appointed. Great. Anyone want to help me second that one? Councillor Hauser will second that for us. Thank you. Anything further on that? Hearing none, I'll call the vote on that. Is anyone against those appointments? None. That's unanimous. We'll move on to the second one. I'll go to Councillor Gawler to table the non-union municipal employee group compensation review motions. Please go ahead. Your worship that staff directed to update the list of competitor municipalities use for all future. Comparison access, including city council, remuneration and the executive team is delegated to update the list as required to that staff directed to conduct a market survey to determine competitiveness of the studies non union municipal employee group benefits. And 3 that staff be directed to conduct a total compensation reviews, pan benefits instead of only salary reviews in accordance with the established schedule every 4 years. Thank you, secondary for that 1.

Clawson will do that. Thank you. So anything further on that 1 before I call the vote counselor Gibson to my separating them please. Sure, no problem. All right. I'm going to separate the vote for the 1st 1. So is anyone against that 1? Okay, just one Councillor Gibson, so that passes. May I combine both two and three together? Yes. Okay, I'll call the vote on two and three together. Is anyone against those motions? Nobody? That's unanimous. That passes as well. Thank you very much. So that's the summary for closed session for everybody. So welcome now. We'll call the meeting to order for our open session of Council, and we're going to start with, if you're able to stand for recognizing our national anthem.

Thank you. Thank you. Great, thank you. Just as we continue a moment of silent reflection.

Great, thank you. And for our territorial acknowledgement, as we gather, let us take time to reflect on the privilege to live and work here in Guelph, a city built over rich indigenous histories. We're guests here and should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land and the people who live here today and the generations to come. If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude. This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time, but more specifically the Aniwana Rock and the Haudenosaunee. The land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation and Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track as part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River. Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today. Now is there any pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the items in front

of us today? No? Okay, so this is a moment where the Mayor gets very embarrassed because I forgot all my notes on my desk upstairs. So I am going to run upstairs. I'm going to go to my room and clean it and find my notes. And I realized halfway through O Canada, I was like, did you know, did you notice? I was singing O Canada in my head. I'm like, shoot I forgot my notes upstairs so Councillor Downer I put you on the spot would you mind sharing for me and could you help counsel maybe just continue to go through some of the consent items and you'll never see a mayor run so fast in his life pardon Colleen's gone up okay hopefully she knows where it is okay we will continue. It's going to be worth the wait. The notes are fantastic. Okay, so just bear with me, everybody. I will continue with the meeting on some of the consent items that

we have, maybe just to kind of continue the meeting and we'll see if we can get that. Colleen can hopefully find them. Let's move just to the consent agenda then from committee. We have the graffiti by law, the facilities cleaning service value for money audit and the 2025 second quarter budget monitoring report. And then the other one is the multi residential property tax subclass discounts for affordable housing. And there's a memo attached to that. Now I already know in advance, I think Councillor Caton, you want to pull the multi residential property tax subclass report. report. Does anyone want to pull any of the other ones though? No. Would someone be willing to move consent on that one for me then? Okay. Goller and I'll look over here. Okay. Alt. Thank you. Is there anything further on those items? No. Okay. I'll call the vote on everything there. Is anyone against those reports? Hearing and seeing none. That's unanimous. So, Councillor Caton, just, just, we'll, we'll come back to you. I've circled it. Just one second, okay?

Let's move to the City Council appointments to the Board of Trustees of the Elliott and the Well Interference Committee. Very prestigious committee. As you know, we have these vacant because Councillor Dominique O'Rourke is now our MP. And so we need to look to fill those spots. In speaking with Councillor Hauser, who has taken over for Councillor O'Rourke, she has indicated her interest in both of those spots, which is nice. But I do have a little bit of everyone clap for Colleen right now. Thank you. Oh, these are the wrong notes. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Thank you, Colleen. So Councillor Hauser has agreed to let her name stand. Now there is kind of a process here. So may I just confirm with you, Councillor Hauser, that you'd like your name to stand for both of those. Could you just put your mic on and say yes? Yes. and I will just ask now is there anyone else on council that is interested in those two spots?

Hearing none, can I have someone move to, okay, alt and a galler, okay, and so congrats on that, we'll call the, well congrats in a minute, I'll call the vote, see if you pass. All right, is anyone against the appointments for Councillor Hauser to those those two committees? It's unanimous. All right. Thank you for filling the void on those. Thank you. All right. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to jump back now to the awards at the beginning, as if the mayor did not forget the notes. And then we'll jump back into the rest of our agenda after that. Okay, everybody? Thank you very much for going with me here. All right. Clerks, are you ready all right the first one we have up here and please forgive me if i say the wrong name for it's about say the wrong name the name of your last name i'm going to try navika randjanathan am i close yes i got a thumbs up all right so navika was inspired by the chess classes as part of the Guelph City Rec and Roll program.

And her recent achievement is winning the UA Girls Championship title at the Canadian Youth Chess Championships held in Surrey, B.C., with a record of five wins, no losses, and two draws. Getting to the championship was not an easy journey, from air traffic controller strike in France, to cancel flights to extreme jet lag and a long journey. But when she held the trophy, that is almost half of her size, all those challenges vanished, all of her hard work paid off, and Navika will now represent Canada in the FIDE, the Feed World Cadets in Kazakhstan later this month. From Guelph. Let's give it up.

Congratulations! That is amazing. Good for you. We will get you the city award here in just one second, okay? Got a few more to go. Our city is full of awesome people. So just here's the next one, okay? So this is Hal Bond. So over the past several decades, Hal Bond has served as an international chess arbiter, tournament organizer, educator, and advocate, representing Guelph and Canada at the highest levels of the game. He has been a leader both on and off the board, having officiated world championship events and served as president of the Chess Federation of Canada and played a pivotal role in mentoring local youth and volunteers. His tireless efforts have helped shape generations of players, uplifted our local chess culture, and brought national and international acclaim to our city. Earlier this year, Howe was inducted into the Canadian Chess Hall of Fame, an honour that reflects his status as one of the most respected figures in Canadian chess history.

Despite his global engagements, Mr. Bond has remained deeply rooted in our community. Mr. Bond has helped found events like the Kitchener Chess Festival and co-organizing the Royal City Masters Tournament right here in Guelph. He has worked with local schools, community organizations and service clubs to make chess accessible to children and families from all backgrounds. Let's give it up for Hal. all right is nathan here there you are nathan nathan skofis now this should not be everyone should know this name because this guy is winning the world everywhere nathan recently represented team canada at the 2025 world taekwondo championships held in scotland earning a gold medal in adult male black belt fighting. The only Canadian male competitor to claim a gold medal. The event brought together over 3,500 competitors from more than 30 countries, making this a truly

remarkable international accomplishment. Nathan's win not only highlights his world-class talent, but also reflects his years of dedication as a mentor, a youth leader here in our community, and he's a huge advocate through his work with the Guelph Family Martial Arts. Let's give it up for Nathan. Congratulations.

And finally, the Guelph Royals under 14 Tier 1. You're here, right? Okay, good. The 2025 season of the Guelph Royals, the under 14 Tier 1 team began in January with a clear message. play for the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back. Through commitment, daily improvement, and a team-first mentality, the players earned the opportunity to compete for and win in the final game of the year. Season highlights include a tournament championship in Brantford, competing against the older under-15 teams in Guelph, a memorial team bonding trip to Cedar Point and finishing the season as the provincial champions in Brantford. Congratulations to the entire team, to all of the players, and I'll say your names all in a moment, to all the coaches, and it's not in my notes here, but to all the parents too. I think you'll appreciate that because I know what that's like as well. Let's give it up for the team, the baseball team.

All right. So I'm going to come on down and we have some city medals to give out to everybody.

So, if I say your name, feel free to come down. Actually, maybe we should do it in front of the Guelph. Yeah, let's do that. We'll do it over there, okay? So come on, feel free to come down either the ramp or the stairs here and then we can go to the backdrop here. And then if you're like a family member that wants to come and take a picture or whatever, totally fine. Come on down and follow and you can do that, okay? We have a Keener here. Okay, perfect. But the first one is Navika. Where is Navika? Are you coming?

Thank you. Thank you. 3. Yeah.

Oh, 1. You. You. You can go. Thank you. Are you? Hi. Hi.

Thank you. What did you miss?

Thank you. So, for this one, I'll do it a little bit different. Okay. I'll yell all the names out. You can all come down and gather right here in the middle. Okay. And then that way, if the parents want to be up there for a picture of everyone, plus it puts all of council on the spot that they have to have to smile. Because they'll be in the picture. Okay. So, Brady, is it most? Am I saying most? Right? Am I saying that? Right? Yes. Come on down. Right? I will. I will. What position do you play? Shortstop. Good job. Good job. You're just staying right in the middle of it. Okay. All right. Brayden Calder here. Is Brayden here? Yeah.

What position do you play? Good job. Awesome. There you go. And we got another Brayden. Brayden Paul? Congratulations. Gotcha. Good job. Okay. And Denton McMillan. How about you? Alright, next up is Gabe Cherry. Am I saying that right? Yes. Gabe couldn't make it? We'll make sure that. That's good. And what about, you know what, tell Gabe that nothing was given at all. He won't even know.

Won't even know we just clap that's it is Jack road night here. Yes.

So. And Liam Spira.

What position are you shortstop? Really? You're like six feet tall. All right, that's awesome. Good job. Good job. He's taller than me. All right, and we got Luke Bromley.

What about you, Luke? Centerville. Congratulations. There you go. All right, Mason Blevins. Perfect.

Okay, almost there everybody. Rowan where I know Rowan. How are you? Yeah. You know that? Okay. Congratulations. All right. Tyler, the Marin tower to Marin here. Nice to meet you. What's your position to you by Pitcher? Pitcher! Alright. Can you get some strikeouts? Of course. Alright, I like that. I like that. That's good. Alright, and we have the final here is Will Stevens. Will, come on down. Thank you, Stephen. Yeah. Yeah. Nice to meet you. More position to you for a second.

Graduates. Let's, uh, everyone together. We'll do one picture then we'll do the coaches as well in a second. Okay? All right, you're ready?

All right, stay there. We'll get your coaches to come down too. Okay? Blair McMillan, come on down the head coach.

How are you? Good. Good. Congratulations. Gotta do this whole thing. So there you go. Thank you so much. All right. Yeah. Stand with the guys here. All right. Mike Mike, come on down. How are you? Good, are you? Congratulations. Thank you very much. Just a quick, we'd like to thank you for having us today. Yeah. Very appreciate the boys have signed a ball for you. Oh, wow. That's awesome. Thank you. That's awesome. That will go right upstairs in the mayor's office. And when you're all playing in the majors, I will not sell it on eBay. All right, thank you. Yep. All right, Jer, where's Jeremy? Jeremy where? Come on down. Come on down Jer. It's kind of a special moment. We were friends in high school growing up together.

Yeah, he helped trim my basement one day. Congratulations. Who would have known, eh? That's so great. Okay, and now we got Jeff Moes and then after that would be Brad Cherry. So Jeff.

Is Brad here or? No. Okay, no problem. Congratulations. Thank you. Nice to meet you. There you are. Awesome. Thank you very much. There you go. Thank you. Let's go. All right, is everyone good? Okay, let me give these medals to... Well, thank you very much for being here and thank you much for this ball. So very special. So thank you. And thank you for all the parents and everyone. Everyone that was recognized today, all of council, really appreciates what you do when you wear and you represent the city of Guelph. It actually means a lot. You are like an ambassador for our city. And so when you go outside of our city and you're playing in that way, you're representing Guelph. And that means a lot. So it means even more when you come home with a gold or something like that. Yeah, but we appreciate what you're doing and good luck to all of you in the future as well. Okay.

So thank you very much, everyone, for being here. If you want to stay for the rest of the council meeting, you can, but we're talking like taxes and all that kind of stuff. So you can stay, but this might be a good time if you want to go. It might be the perfect time to do that. Okay. So thank you very, very much.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, everyone, thank you again and we're just going to jump back. We're going to do the minutes. The minutes of the open Council meeting held July 15th, 16th, 22nd and 23rd, 2025.

And the open minutes of the Committee of the Whole meeting July 8th, 2025, as amended, be confirmed as recorded and without being read. Thank you, Councillor Busatil, seconded by Councillor Ault. Can I call the vote on that, everybody? Yep. Okay. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? Nope. That's unanimous. Thank you. And now why don't we jump back, Councillor Caten. Thank you for your patience there on, what is it? What's the title of that again? Multi-residential property tax subclass discounts for affordable housing. Would you at least, Councillor Caten, just move the main motion just to get it on the floor before we open up conversation? Absolutely. Who would like to second that? Richardson? Okay. And then over to you, Councillor Caton. I have three additional motions to move. I don't know how you want to handle that. If you would like us to do this first. Actually let me just actually, I would say that those are separate. So why don't I just open up the floor quickly to see if there's is there any questions on the main motion?

No, okay. And the memo, I think, certainly helped too. That was attached. So what I'll do is I'll call the vote then on the main motion. Okay. Is there anyone against? That's nobody. So that's great. That's unanimous. So now as a separate, separate options, Councillor Caton, you have 3 motions that you want to consider tabling. I'll turn the floor over to you. Thank you. If you could put those on the screen, please. Please clerks. Thanks. So I'm just going to do a kind of preamble for all of them. We have this amazing program and an ability to help people put forward affordable rentals. And I think that it would be fantastic if the provincial government helped us do that by one, on the first motion to help those who are currently in their own homes to retain them, who are on the Ontario Works or the Ontario Disability Support Program because they have

limited means with which to pay their property taxes, but also to adopt a grant program so so that municipalities can further adopt this program without broadening the tax base result to everybody else. So this would be a grant program that would lower the taxes overall so that all the municipalities could adopt this subclass and then we could help get affordable rentals throughout the province. And also, I would like it if they would expand the program and match the municipalities who are adopting the subclass by doing a similar discount on the educational amount so that we can incent more affordable rentals throughout the province. And I can read those individually out right now, or if we would like to have some discussion first, I'm happy to do that.

Yeah, no problem. Councillor Richardson would be happy to second all three. So they're technically on the floor now. Let me just open it up if there's any questions. Okay. Oh, sorry. Councillor Boussatil. Yes, thank you. And through the Mayor. Just a question on the first one. It says joint social services. I assume that is the joint social services and land ambulance committee. And if so, if that could be, Yeah, is that what you intended? This is the joint committee between the City of Guelph and the county? Yes. Thank you and I just wanted to ask about the first one which I've lost, the first one and so what you're looking for is property tax relief for home owners whose income may be ODSP or Ontario Works is that correct? Yes I'm hopeful that the province can create a program we do have other programs for folks that are seniors and this seems to be a group that is also in need of those and I

And I would love it if we had an option for them provincially so they could get either rebates or grants or what have you. Thank you and I'll have comments later. Thank you. Okay, you can feel free to have comments now. You have the floor. Go ahead. Thank you very much. Through the Mayor. I am going to support the first motion. I don't think it's out of the scope of the province as you mentioned does the Seniors Home Tax Program $500. And they've already got a mechanism, it's done at tax time, so you've got income, household, you've got all the information there as part of the tax program. I know that on the Joint Social Services Land Ambulance Committee, we've talked about advocating to the provincial government around raising Ontario Works and ODSP rates. It doesn't look like that's on the horizon, and I am very fearful for individuals with fixed income and their housing stability. So I will be supporting number 1. Okay, thank you. Is there any other questions on any 3? Or comments? If not, would you like me to separate them then? Councilor Busatil?

So what I'll do is I'll call the vote on just number 1. Okay, is anyone against number 1? Okay, nobody. So that's unanimous. And then, um, can I do 2 and 3 together? Councilor Busatil? Or do you want me to do them separately as well? No, okay. I'll call the vote on two and three together. Is anyone against that one? Oh, okay. So that's unanimous as well. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Cain. You're good? Yep. Okay. So with that, all of those consent items now and that one that's pulled forward from committee is done. We are now to the last item on our agenda and. Yes, it is road network maintenance levels of service. Councillor Gower is going to speak to this and then we have 1 delegation. Karen Rathwell is Karen here. I don't have my glasses on. Yes, I see Karen. Thank you for being here. Okay. So, um.

Councillor Guller, you're kind of wanting to introduce this, so I'll just give you a few minutes to have a kind of a preamble to what you're trying to do. Thank you. And then, um. And then we can, uh, then we can go to the delegation and then maybe then after that, you can table it. Okay. Well, through your worship to my fellow counselors and Guelph residents, these motions are addressing growing and silent threat to our environment, which is road salt pollution. The city is a leader in environmental stewardship and we're unique in a reliance on groundwater for drinking water supply. This makes protecting our aquifers from chloride pollution a top priority. The city of Guelph is already committed to minimize salt use using modern equipment and best practices to keep our roads and sidewalks safe while protecting our local water sources. However, despite our best efforts at the municipal level, the problem continues to worsen across the province. For decades, chloride levels have been rising in a reverse lace and groundwater, and while salt is essential for public safety, a major contributing factor to this over-salting is the current legal business climate that exposes winter maintenance contractors to unlimited liability from slip and fall lawsuits.

This fear of legal action leads to overuse of salt, which harms our environment and makes it difficult for contractors to find affordable insurance. This is a province quite problem that requires a provincial solution. I wanted to take a moment to acknowledge the excellent work at the water watchers local golf based NGO that is leading the charge on this issue. They have been instrumental in raising awareness and coordinating this province wide advocacy campaign to address all pollution. The motions that I will be tabling ask the province to establish limited liability legislation tied to the mandatory training and certified best practices around winter maintenance and the use of salt to create a funded expert advisory committee to guide local. Provincial and municipal action on protecting our freshwater systems and reaffirms was commitment to continuing to lead in this area. So, that is what I'll be introducing your worship. Great. Thank you very much. Why don't we ask Karen Rathwell from Water Watchers to come on down and delegate to this matter. And Karen, I think you might know, but it's up to five minutes. No more than that. And then there's a chime at the four minute, 30 second mark to give you the 30 second warning.

OK, so I'll turn it over to you. Thank you. Through you, Mayor. Good evening, councillors. Thank you, Councillor Grieco. My name is Karen Rathwell. I'm a long serving member of Water Watchers and a member of the Ontario Salt Pollution Coalition, and I'm here tonight to speak in support of the motion that's before you. I'll talk a little bit about the salt pollution in general, but I also want to connect it to our local impact and why this motion is really a simple way to usher some solutions to the problem in. Okay, good. Road salt in 1999 was designated a substance, a toxic substance, under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act because of tangible threats, including serious, irreversible environmental damages. And when you hear the word toxic tonight, I'd like you to hear the word poison. Clearly what we've been already doing isn't working. And the comments that you see on the screen...

So sorry. How do I go back? Yes, the comments that you see on the screen are comments from a joint source water protection meeting meeting from the City of Toronto, Credit Valley, and the Central Lakes Association in Ontario. And there were many comments presented during this paper, but they all sounded like there was going to be no solution unless we make a solution. What we're doing does not work. Ontario's freshwater systems are in jeopardy and in crying. Ontario is Canada's number one user of winter salt and we dump approximately 2.5 million tons of salt each winter into our freshwater system and this accounts for 50 percent of the salt that's used in Canada. The salt pollution never leaves our water system. It just dissolves and changes the water's quality. And once the chloride sodium is added to the environment, it accumulates. No wetlands, plants, or will filter out this pollution, and there are limited, expensive options to filter it mechanically.

Even if a filtration system was viable in our communities, we still need to dispose of the collected salt somewhere. somewhere and it's still toxic poison wherever it lands currently there are no provincial policies or regulations for road salt distribution and we are our group is asking uh for the four uh points in the motion that has been presented here tonight the policy void that the province has has created a liability issues for snow and ice management contractors and one of the most egregious impacts of this policy void is it's left municipalities out in the cold to deal with salt pollution issues locally without supportive policy that they need to be significantly effective.

Ontario's Salt Pollution Coalition is asking municipalities for help to make this happen, but we're not alone. We're joined by Landscape Ontario, a professional organization whose members not only do winter maintenance but also see the effects of salt pollution on their landscape work in other seasons and want leadership from the province. In particular, Landscape Ontario members need to change the slip, want to change the slip and fall litigation legislation which is currently forcing operators to pay outrageous insurance fees and penalties as noted in their 2023 policy report. These operators have shared that they are directed by property owners to distribute unnecessary salt to protect them against slip and fall claims. Lots of impacts of road salt are visible and we sadly have come to normalize these. But there are also the hidden costs like the impacts to aquatic life and the food chain effects, in particular the disruption of health of the zooplankton at the bottom of the freshwater food

chain which will have complicated consequences as chlorine and sodium levels rise. There are primarily four groups, the city, the county, private contractors and the public that apply road salt. The city and the county are sensitive to how much salt goes on the roads because they also have to provide water for our communities. But the private contractors and the public at large need more education in this regard. Well, I'm just, your time is up, but you had some technical problems. I'm going to give you another 20 seconds. Okay, go ahead. Well, we've already mentioned that we want legislative change and that limited liability legislation has to be looked at this has already happened in new hampshire and it's worked successfully its way through the courts and as well in quebec in gatineau quebec they've made changes to where there is limited salt down in certain roads in certain neighborhoods which is also becoming uh very effective to keep the water out of our streams and our waterways there are

some of the signs that are used in these communities which warn people that these roads are not salted. And I'm asking tonight that you would think very positively about the motion that's being presented and vote to have the province make some provincial changes that need to happen. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Karen. Is there any follow up question? Councillor Altas. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. First of all, thank you to Ms. Rathwell, Water Watchers and other advocacy groups for bringing this forward. But there's one thing that I need clarification on because the language is ambiguous and I'll ask staff about this as well. Limited liability can mean two things. Less liability for accidents or less liabilities for the city if we use less salt or limiting the liability in such a fashion that basically we're letting contractors and everyone off if somebody gets injured. What do we mean by limited liability? Because I want to protect the public and I also want to protect the environment.

Right. And I can see why there's some confusion with the limited liability part. It's limiting how much a claim could be given certain circumstances. If a contractor has proven that they've given due diligence, they've done their part, they don't need to pour down carpets of salt. That's a visual thing. And we don't need that much salt. It turns into brine, it disappears, but it's still effective. But we need to get public education on that. So we need to limit the amount that these contractors can get sued for because I understand a $400,000 lawsuit up in Muskoka when a neighbor slipped on a neighbor's front steps. That friendship's over. And it's just, you know, we have to be reasonable about this, about where this insurance thing is going and not follow our neighbours to the south where everything becomes litigation. I don't disagree with that. Another question for both you and our last staff as well. Can you provide some examples of alternatives to salting that can be used? Well, yeah, thank you, Councillor Ault. And we have been asked this a lot.

And there are some alternatives, and I've heard about different jurisdictions that have used beet juice or, believe it or not, whey from cheese making and so on. But, you know, with this kind of thing, you've also got a negative outcome as well. And think of the cheese way. That's got to get smelly come the spring. So I don't think there's easy answers. And people are working on this. I just spoke with somebody at U of G that says we're working hard on this. The answers we're looking for is to minimize the salt. We're still going to need it. but there are things that are happening in Gatineau where they're not putting salt down in neighborhoods that have access right up to the creek for instance I'm just thinking of along Stephenson there along Elizabeth and those those Walter and those little streets down there little streets like there they're flat there's no hills there's not a great deal of possibility of if they're cleared and they tell the neighbors ahead of time as they've done in Gatineau this will not be salted we'll put down a little bit of traction for you yes but you have to drive we all have to drive slower come winter just as we would do we're doing something in another sport while we're driving in the winter we slow down interestingly enough and I heard Danny say this so I looked it up there are fewer accidents in

the winter almost half as many accidents traditionally in the winter in Ontario in the automobile accidents because people are driving slower and now we're all driving slower because our communities got calming and it's really making a difference in our neighborhood. I've noticed it. Thank you very much and thank you for your advocacy. Thank you. All right, thank you. I see nothing further. So it's back to us. So Councillor Gower, I know you're moving it and worked with this with Councillor Caton as a seconder. Am I correct? Yep. Councillor Mr. Caton, thumbs up from you. You're okay with that? Okay, perfect. Is there any questions to staff that are relevant? Go ahead. Mr. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. Through you too. I believe it's Ms. Clack. I'm supportive of the motions, but I want to be very, very clear that I have some concerns about the interpretation of liability and the alternatives that we might have, including reduction or other substances. I was wondering if you could comment on both of those. So through the Chair, Mr. Godfrey is going to come down and potentially help here. So to be clear, we are not in a position tonight to speak to questions of liability.

We don't have legal staff present and so we didn't prepare to answer that in advance. What I do want to say though is the motions that I know and I don't want to speak for Councillor Gawler, but in working with the Wellington Water Watchers, this is primarily about contractors on private property, not about what the City is doing and I just want to give that public reassurance and to kudos to Mr. Godfrey and his team and and Doug can certainly give you more details if you would like but the city we have done a significant effort in reducing our salt usage to apply the right materials at the appropriate levels based on weather conditions to find that balance between protecting protecting our water supply but also making sure that our roads are safe and so this these motions that are before you calling on the province are about that limited liability for contractors on private property. It isn't, and again, I don't mean to speak for the mover of the motion if Councillor Gallagher wants to say anything further. And also, as I say, Mr. Godfrey is here if you have specific questions about what the city is doing. But I think we certainly can't speak to any questions about liability. Mr. Godfrey, I think the second part of the question was like you know what is the city doing from an alternative point of

view i'm sorry counselor alt am i saying that correctly yeah yeah okay uh through you mayor to councilor alt as uh dcao clack bush indicated we use the right materials at the appropriate levels based on the weather forecast and conditions in addition we do explore alternatives we have tried beet juice here in the past in guelph as you may be aware but we also work with both the University of Guelph and external partners to look at ways to better measure road conditions and apply salt directly to the road where it's needed and where it's and not where it's not. So we're working on a number of projects that will help reduce salt use. We also train all staff to make sure that they're aware when it's appropriate to use assault him when it's not. Thank you. Mayor Guthrie, I do have a question or comment perhaps for the mover and the seconder. I am a bit concerned, having heard from Ms. Clackbush, that what's not in the motions is this largely focuses upon private property, unless I missed it, and I'm wondering whether we need to include that in there.

So, it's not about private property. It's about private contractors on. Okay, to the mover. Through worship to console or alt, there is a memo that's attached to this and the last motion says that the memo will go and the memo makes it very clear that this is about private contractors. It's it's it's limited liability. And as our delegate from the water watchers spoke, the focus is that there needs to be a solution so that private contractors that are doing winter maintenance have the means, including best practices. So that that is where the limited liability comes in so that they can work better.

Okay, thank you. And is there any other questions or comments class in please? And then, and then Kate and after that. Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. First of all, I just would like to thank Councillor Gawler for his leadership on this. I think that it's a big issue and if we don't deal with it now, it can get a lot bigger and it's going to be a future problem that could be dire. Thank you to the Water Watchers for your leadership as well in this area. My question is for staff with regard to I know we have a salt management plan. I am curious and I think DCAO, Clark Bush, you spoke a little bit to that, but I'm also curious a little bit about the education outreach that we do or don't do as part of that. MR. Through the Mayor to the Councillor, as part of our source water protection, we We do provide information to property owners on how to protect wells water and how to options for road salt. And this on the city's webpage. Okay, thank you. Great. And Kate, please.

Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor. I also wanted to thank Councillor Geller and the water watchers for bringing this forward. And I also. I wanted to call out that, um. The motions that we're passing here tonight include advocacy and inclusion of the disability community to make sure that this is something that. Is both environmentally sound and accessible and I really appreciate the addition of that in the motions. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anything further before I call the vote? Okay, you get 30 seconds with me. So I actually think this is a very relevant advocacy piece. For a couple reasons number 1. We're a groundwater community. So if any community is going to be jumping on this type of thing, it should be us. Second, I know you all have heard me say it before, but before I was here, I was an insurance broker for 16 years, and I did a lot of insurance and commercial general liability for contractors that were doing snow removal.

Everything that Karen said at the microphone tonight and everything that the landscaping association of Ontario and everything we're talking about here is 100% true. The liability costs were exorbitant as soon as you did snow removal and landscapers are some of them only do like the seasonal for the for the for the summer right summer fall cleanup. I remember I remember the instant on the application you said and do you do snow removal if they said yes their liability So the costs went way up because of the liability exposure to these general contractors and these private companies that are doing it because of the out of control slip and fall claims that are occurring. And then everyone pays at the end of the day. So I think that this is actually one of the most relevant ones that have come forward for at least those two reasons in my mind. Thank you to you, Karen, and the group. And thank you, Councillor Gawler, for this as well.

And I actually think that I'm glad to see that the Ontario landscaping association and whatnot has been leading the charge on this as well. And it's good that we're kind of all banding together. You know, all groups coming kind of flanking from the left and the right kind of trying to kind of push this forward. and I'm very excited to hear and I did not know this from staff I did not know that there might be like research and development happening right here in our own backyard at the U of G that's fantastic that's that's great and if we can be a testing ground for that kind of stuff to partner on that that's that's fantastic to try to find different ways of of addressing this issue so thank you Councillor Guller I appreciate it and with that I will call the vote is anyone against nobody that's unanimous thank you very much counselor hauser you're up for the bylaws tonight so they'll come on the screen and if you wouldn't mind reading that out for us that bylaws 2025 21136 21146 and 21150 be approved subject to section 284.114 of the municipal act

Thank you. I'm going to go with how about you down or even alright down. There's going to second those bylaws for us. Is there anything on the bylaws? Hearing and seeing none. I'll call the vote anyone against the bylaws. Nope. Okay. So, I just call the vote on that twice by accident. Maybe I asked if there's anything on it first and then I, okay, sorry. Sorry, it's not like I left my notes on my desk upstairs or anything. I have no mayor's announcement, so I'm looking for adjournment. I bet you Councillor Billings and Councillor Chu would move in second adjournment. Am I right, Councillor Chu? Yes. All right. Is anyone against adjournment? Nobody. That's unanimous as well. Our meeting is over. Everyone have a great night. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you.