Council rejects permit-only fireworks by-law

All right. Good afternoon, everyone. It's kind of odd for me to say good afternoon, but. It is 330. We have a lot on our agenda tonight, both in camera and in the open session, a lot of it in camera tonight, so take a deep breath. And name all the things here that need to be said in the public realm about what we're meeting for in camera. But before I do that, is there any disclosure or pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for any of the closed items that are on the agenda. Don't see or hear anything, so thank you. So, here we go. October 2024. Public appointments. The Elliott Community Board of trustees is section 2392. B of the municipal act regarding personal matters of unidentifiable individual, including municipal or local board employees. The second is Bill 185, interpretation section 2392 f of the Municipal act, regarding advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose. 1242 to 1270

Gordon street and nine Valley Road, Ontario Land Tribunal Update Section 2392 EF of the municipal act regarding litigation or potential litigation, including matters before administrative tribunals affecting the municipality or local board. And advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose. 785 Gordon Street, Ontario Land Tribunal. That is the exact same as the one I just read. Above. Section 2392, e and f. Just to say that part expression of interest on 170 Stephanie Drive. Section 2392 c of the municipal act regarding a proposed or pending acquisition or disposition of land by the municipality or local board. Almost everybody. Amalgamated Transit Union ATU Bargaining Update section 2392 D of the Municipal act regarding labor relations or employee negotiations. And finally, the public space use bylaw update section 2392 f of the Municipal act regarding advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose. And that is

it. May I have a colleague? Move. Councillor alt is helping me. Councillor Koran. Is helping me as seconding. Oh, sorry. Did you have a second question or a question on. The closed. Go ahead. Councillor Cron. Yes. I didn't realize 785 was a street. Item, and I wanted to clarify. Potential conflicts of interest as my employer is currently leasing me. And I'll fill in the pro forms right now. Yes. Good catch. Thank you. All right. And I will make sure that I reiterate that. You were not part of that discussion. When we come out of close, so everyone knows that that occurred for you. Okay? So thank you. 785 for Councillor Karan. She'll fill out. The forms. But were you willing to second everything else, though, at least to go in? Yes. Okay. I'll call the vote then. Is anyone against? All those closed items for discussion. Nobody is against that. So that's approved. We will move into closed session, and when we are done in three weeks, we will come back out. And do the summary. We'll be back out, hopefully very soon.

Hello, it's Maragothri here. Just jumping in to let everyone know. Our in camera meeting went extremely long. Lots to discuss. I will do the summary as normal. But instead of starting at six, we will be starting at. 615. So 25 minutes. Okay, just so everyone knows that I'll do the summary when. I come out and then we'll do the open session, so. 615, thank you so. Much.

Okay. I'd like to call the meeting to order. Thank you so much for giving us that extra 15 minutes or so. To start our open session. I will quickly go through. The. Closed summary as I do, so bear with me because there was a lot. That we discussed in camera tonight. So, in regards to the first one, which was October 2024, public appointments for the Elliot community. Board of trustees. We do have a motion that's coming out of closed session on that. So let me just ask for that to be thrown up on the screen. And. We can look. To consider that. So that Thomas Hunter be appointed to the Elliott Community Board of trustees for a three year term. Ending October 29, 2027, or until such time as a successor is appointed. Councilor Downer and O'Rourke will move. And second that and anything further on that. Don't hear anything. I'll call a vote. Is anyone against that appointment? Nobody. That's unanimous. So welcome to

you. Thank you for your interest. In the Elliot. We appreciate that. The second one was Bill 185, interpretation. And there was no direction on that at all. Councillor. Just received some information about that item. For the third one, which is 1240, 212 70 Gordon street and nine Valley Road, Ontario Land tribunal update. Councillor did receive some information, and we did give direction to staff on that item. And on the next one it was 785 Gordon street. Again, Ontario Land Tribunal update. And again Councillor did receive information from our legal staff in regards to that, and direction was given to staff. On that matter. The next one was an expression of interest with the address of 170 Stephanie Drive. We received information from staff on that item, and direction was actually given to staff as well. On the second last one, which is the amalgamated transit

union or ATU? Bargaining. Update, councillor received. Information on that item. And no direction was given to staff on that. And the last one was on the public space used bylaw. Update, Councillor received. Legal advice on that issue for that update. And no direction was given from counsel on that matter. But I am going to take this opportunity at this moment. To just read a statement in regards. To that issue, so just give me a moment here. So here we go. I want to just take this opportunity to acknowledge the many emails Councillor received regarding the public space. Use bylaw and to respond to a common theme. The vast majority of emails we've received are from residents who actually support the bylaw. But are actually worried it doesn't go far enough to protect certain areas that are important. To them personally. For example. People are concerned

about potential encampments near schools. Or in parks where kids are walking to school, or parks that are even used for school activities. I want people to understand. That Councillor hears you, and we understand those concerns. And that's why Councillor supported the bylaw. The bylaw gives us the tools to respond to encampments in areas where. They're not safe or appropriate for them to be. However. There seems to be some confusion about the scope and the application of the bylaw. As a reminder, the map was only. Intended to be a high level visual tool to show examples of where the bylaw applies. Let me be clear. The map. Is not part of the bylaw. And the map is not going to be used. For enforcement purposes. When residents reach out to me and to other members of

Councillor asking about specific locations. I don't think it's widely understood that we don't need to add specific areas to one of the schedules contained in the bylaw in order for it to constitute what's considered. A sensitive public space. Or. A designated area. For example, if you read the definition of sensitive public space, It goes from general. Down to specific. So at the broadest level, Sensitive public space means. Areas intended for a sensitive public, recreational or personal use. The definition then goes on to provide examples including. Areas intended for use by children or pets or for the mobility of the public. Or with heightened safety requirements or attracting a heightened expectation of quiet use and enjoyment,

then the biologicals down even further to give specific examples. Including, but not limited to, playgrounds, water parks, splash pads, fenced off leash, dog parks, trails accessibility routes, entrances, exits, municipal cemeteries, community gardens and founts. And the definitions are based on the public nature of those spaces that we are protecting. So where the public use of that space is more sensitive. More restrictive regulations apply. To repeat, for some emphasis here. A sensitive public space. Is any area. Intended for a sensitive public, recreational or personal use. Including areas intended for use by children. Pets or for the mobility of the public. So I think the bylaw as written gives us the tools. To address the concerns we're

all hearing. We don't need to designate every space. And it would be impossible to anticipate every hypothetical scenario. So if you encounter a structure in any area, You don't consider safe? Or appropriate, please reach out to bylaw compliance and provide them with that information right away. Designating too many areas or expanding protective buffers out of fear or personal preference is. A slippery slope, and we don't need to go down that slope in order to achieve the purpose of the bylaw, which is the safe use and enjoyment of all of our public spaces. So thank you very much for allowing me to read that. In regards to that matter and with that. We will now move on. Into the open session of our agenda. So to kick things off right away, I'm looking for my agenda,

but I pretty much know, I think what it is, I think we need to stand. For O Canada, please. Thank you.

Great. Thank you. And now, just for a moment of silent reflection, please.

Great. Thank you. And now, our indigenous territorial acknowledgment. As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work here in Guelph a city that's built over rich indigenous histories. We're guests here, and we should reflect. Upon the responsibility to care for this land and the people who live here today and. The generations to come. If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude. This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for. Many peoples over time, but more specifically the Anawanorak and the honey. This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the credit First Nation. And guelflies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long established. Traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand river. Many First Nations, Inuit and mat people. Who have come from a cross turtle island called Guelph, home to date. And with that, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof? For what is in front of us from the open agenda. Oh, that reminds me. Earlier today, I just

want to make sure it's on public record. Councilor Koran did move that she had. A conflict of interest. On 785 Gordon? I think it was. And I just want to confirm publicly that she did not take part in any way of that. Conversation. Okay. And with that. Sorry, I didn't look around the room. No disclosure of community, no disclosure of any interest. Or general nature thereof. Okay, we're good. We're good for the open session. Thank you, and then the minute, please. For the open Councillor meeting minutes held September 10 and 24th, 2024, and the committee of the whole minutes from September 4 and 17th, 2024 be confirmed as recorded and without being read. Thank you, busatill. Thank you, billings. Any changes on the minutes? No. Okay, I will call the vote. Everyone okay with anyone against the minutes? Nobody's that passes unanimously. Thank you. We have the consent agenda in front of us. The consent

is the residential security cameras bylaw. Review. And the grant opportunity. For the connecting links fund application. Specifically for the York Road. Phase four, stage one project. Hoping we can get some money. From the province on that. Does anyone want to pull either of those? No one who wants to move consent for me. How about Linda again? I mean, Councillor Busatilla. Again, thank you. And Councillor alt. All right. Anything else on those items? No. Okay, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? Nobody. That's unanimous for the consent items. Thank you very much. We have basically one item left, and we're going to do some counsel appointments. We have the fireworks. Bylaw. I hope that was dramatic enough for you. How I said the title. We are here to make a decision in regards to the fireworks bylaw that has not been updated in a very long time in the city. And joining us. Are several delegations. So I'd like to say this once. So that everyone

hears me, just say at once. If you're a delegation, whether you're here in person or whether you're joining us? Online by phone or video. You have no more than five minutes. And clerks, if I could just ask you that. You will. Please turn off the microphones at the five minute mark if they're in the room. Or online. Because you have no more than five minutes. You will hear a chime. At the four minute and 32nd mark, which gives you a heads up. There's only 30. Seconds left. If you don't need the whole five minutes, we're good with that, too, but. You have up to five minutes, and you can have the whole five minutes, if that's. What you plan for. Once you're done your delegation, just stick around for a moment because. There might be a follow up question from either myself or one of my colleagues. Okay. If not, we'll go on to the next one. Please forgive me in advance if I don't say your name correctly. I will try my very best. Okay. And correct me if I'm wrong. So let's kick things off. The first one we have, I believe in person. Is Mo Markham from Waterloo Region climate initiatives.

And you are here. So thank you very much for coming here. I am here. And whenever you're ready, you can go right ahead and your up to five minutes will start, so go right ahead. Thank you. I want to thank you for working on this new bylaw for Guelph. I recently delegated. At the city of Kitchener's Councillor on the subject as well, and I know that they're considering a ban, too, and they are also discussing. The possibility of a band with other local municipalities. As a concerned citizen and a former resident of Guelph, I hope that you do decide. To ban them. And I hope that you decide to ban them all together. Outright. While they are associated with celebration and joy, they're unregulated. Use poses significant safety hazards. Noise disturbances, financial costs to cities and municipalities, environmental concerns and disturbance and trauma to humans and pets. And wildlife, as I think most of us know. I would also ask you to consider alternatives to public fireworks displays for these same reasons, and I'll talk

more about this later. So the recent surge in firework related incidents and dangerous activity in various municipalities, including Kitchener and Waterloo have enhanced public awareness and understanding. That stricter regulations. Need to be put in place for the well being of residents and the preservation of our local ecosystems and the wild animals we share the planet with. Most of you are probably aware that there were near riots in and around Victoria park in Kitchener. When fireworks were thrown at passersby, including at a child stroller. And in Waterloo, a city Councillor and Waterloo city Councillor was struck in the face with a firecracker when she was returning from the Waterloo, Canada Day drone show. I have lived in. Sorry. I have lived near various parks in Kitchener, Waterloo and in Guelph. And I've been woken up many, many times at all hours of the night by fireworks, as I'm sure anyone else who lives near parks has been, and I've called. A non emergency number to report

people letting off fireworks and keeping me up over and over again. All night long. And I know that police and bylaw simply can't keep up, so there are many costs associated with fireworks. Personal, public, et cetera. And we feel that these are too high. Personal. Costs. Loud and disruptive noise, disturbed sleep on holidays and actually for days before and afterwards. Violence up to and including passers by, adults and young children having firecrackers thrown. At them. Financial costs, specifically bylaw officers. Extra bylaw officers to attend when there are issues. Police, et cetera, to show up. At all hours, and I think it's taking police away from. Other places that they're more needed. The cost of cleanup. And then, of course, more police when things get out of control. There are also many human costs. Fireworks trigger people with PTSD, with autism, and other people who have issues with sensory overload. An increasing number of people have

been dealing with depression and anxiety since Covid, as we know and since the cost of living has become impossible for so many. And another reason, some of the discussion you were having earlier about the tent cities. Fireworks also released harmful gases and chemicals which can irritate people's lungs and eyes. There are also, of course, environmental costs. They've been shown to contribute to water, air and air pollution, microplastic pollution as well. They contain many toxic and damaging chemicals such as carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide percolate, and others. And they've been responsible for starting fires in Canada and elsewhere when what we really need is to be putting out fires, not risking more. And, of course, there's the cost to our four legged and feathered friends who leave. Their nests. And they're young, as I believe others will be discussing tonight. I think public awareness is high now, and a number of municipalities are considering bans. And I'm glad that Guelph is doing that as well. I would like you to consider alternatives. Drone shows, et cetera. And

to think about. Quieter alternatives for people, and I really appreciate that you're doing this. I thank you so much for your time. So it looks like I'm out of time. Although that didn't seem like five minutes to me. Yeah, it always seems faster sometimes, but. You did great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let me see if there's a follow up. No, there is not. So thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Will Barrett. Will here. No. Okay, we're going to skip over will. How about Erica Hogan? From fat Boys fireworks maybe joining us by video. And I've just been told. Erica that maybe you might need to turn your camera on if you're going to join. Us by video. There you are. We see you. And you're just still muted there. Now you're unmuted. Yeah. We can both hear you and see you. So thank you very much for joining us. I don't know if you heard earlier, but you have up to five

minutes there's. A chime at the four minute 32nd mark, and after that, at the five minute, we turn your microphone off. Don't let us get there. Okay, so I'll turn it. Over to you. Awesome. Well, first off, thank you so much for allowing me this opportunity to councillor. Members and mayor and the community of Guel. My name is Erica Hogan. And I am one of the franchise operators of fat boy fireworks. I've been selling fireworks. I just want to give you a little backstory. Since I was 14, when I was working. On paying my way through school to go to college. I now own many businesses and because of that opportunity of learning a business. I am where I am today. I am also someone who conquers PTSD every day. A mother of four beautiful children, one that we get to hold. Well, sorry. Three we got to hold at night, and one that we had to say goodbye to when she passed in October 2020. Fireworks. I understand have many concerns and I am going to come on here and I do understand. That there is. Issues with people who do not like fireworks, the environment, the concerns with pets, and people who like myself who do have PTSD, but I would also like to state that there's other ways to go about this with me, for example, with my locations that I do

sell fireworks, we have kid and pet friendly fireworks, which means that. There are low noise options, and the colors and the sounds are reduced. Now, other things that I think that we need to possibly have an opportunity to educate on is this is a bylaw. Issue, the police should not be called. And what I know in other municipalities where we do run locations is bylaw. Only works Monday through Friday. Nine to five. So bylaw isn't able to make these opportunities for fines to actually show presence and people are calling police. And we are using up those resources that shouldn't. Be used off of a firework call, which I do agree with. Now, I would love to have the opportunity to explore. Why don't we have bylaw on rotation? During the bylaw hours to have these concerns and calls. For example, from the last allegation who has called because you are getting woken up in the middle of the night, which is not what we're supposed to do. But I think banning something that is used, for example, for me and my family, is my kids. Like to lay the firework off for my daughter, who passed because my kids tell me all. The time. That's the closest gift that they can get to piper and that to them. Is. How they say hi or celebrate,

and we do it within, obviously bylaw days and stuff, but that one special firework is made for them. And as a business. There is repercussions. I had a store in Woodstock that was closed down because of a firework bylaw. And to be honest, I lost all that income. I had to sell my house, my husband and. I had to revisit our finances. We had to stop putting money into the community that we donate to and the businesses that we support. When we were there selling did notice a decrease. Whether that's restaurants, that's people coming in from other towns doing their shopping there. There's a lot of repercussional action that we have to think about. I understand the noise and the safety is one concern, but I truly believe by reevaluating. The bylaw and the officers that are supposed to. Be taking care of this and being there, that should be the first thing that we look at. Now, I am open to questions. I know you have a lot of delegations ahead of you. And I don't want to waste any more time because I truly appreciate the opportunity that you've given me to at least put a little bit of hopefully, knowledge and maybe a little education behind. Fireworks, that there is more than

just noise and a danger, and maybe we could reevaluate. And look at those avenues first before. Stopping something that is truly loved by at least 50% of communities around. So once again, thank you so much for the time. I'm coming in under five minutes. And once again, thank you. Okay. Thank you, Erica. I appreciate your presentation to us. Let me see if there's a follow up for you. There is not. So thank you again and have a good rest of the night. Okay? Thank you. Again for your time. Have a great evening. You as well. All right, I think next is in person. Gardeep rattan is ger deep here. No. Okay. How about over the phone? Babak kumar roshi. My apologies, Mr. Mayor. We've been unable to get a hold of that delegates. We'll keep drawing a couple more times. Back at the end. All right, so how about by video? Harmon Gill. Oh, you're here in person. You're even better than video. Real life.

That's great. Welcome, herman. By saying your name, right? Yes, you are. Okay, perfect. Welcome. Thank you very much. Go right ahead. Whenever you're ready. Mayor steam. Councillor, thank you for having us. I actually own fat boy fireworks. We're one of Canada's largest retailers of family. Fireworks in Canada. We're the only interprovincial fireworks company out there, so because of that, we have the luxury and the privilege of working with Councillor, fire departments and city bylaws to address these concerns, and I've been doing this for 20 years. And I've seen a lot, heard a lot, and I see what works and what doesn't. Work, so I'll get to what we're trying to say. So I'm here to discuss why banning personal use fireworks may not be the best path forward for the city of Guelph and why improving enforcement and existing bylaws rather than implementing a full ban could better address the concerns. Around fireworks in our community. A complete ban enforced through a restrictive permit system would essentially end personal use fireworks for residents as permits would be available only

to professional technicians with insurance. However, in practice, most licensed technicians do not carry their own insurance. That makes it virtually impossible for individual residents to obtain permits for personal celebrations. This creates a barrier to enjoyment that is overly restrictive and unnecessary when better solutions are available. Instead, Guelph should look to Mississauga's approach as a model Mississauga has retained the ability for residents to use personal fireworks. While implementing a strict enforcement policy, they have introduced significant penalties with fines of up to $100,000. For those who misuse fireworks or violate the city's bylaws, this way. Responsible residents who follow the rules can still celebrate holidays safely, while those who misuse fireworks face heavy consequences. This balanced approach has allowed Mississauga to address misuse without resorting to a total ban, and it encourages people to act responsibly while still allowing for personal holiday celebrations. I'm a resident of the city of Brampton and. I've seen all the ups and downs in Brampton. We've also seen Brampton's experience that

bands do not necessarily decrease fireworks complaints. In fact, they may have the opposite effect. After Brampton's ban, residents who still wanted fireworks simply purchased them outside of the city or ordered them online. This workaround has driven fireworks use underground, making. It more difficult to monitor and enforce safety standards rather than eliminating the problem. The ban as an inadvertently increased enforcement challenges and complaints. The city of Brampton has seen. In completes skyrocket after the ban, there's been more fires and houses due to improper disposal because people are scared to get fined and the problem hasn't been solved. It's actually gotten way worse. Forcing the stronger penalties. And educating residents and responsible fireworks use would be a more effective approach. This would give law enforcement the power to address those who misuse fireworks without penalizing everyone or restricting the joy that personal fireworks can bring to holiday celebrations. It concludes the proposed permit system. Ban may seem like a solution. But evidence, like from cities like Brampton that shows that bands can drive fireworks, use underground and make enforcement much harder. Wealth can balance safely safety and

enjoyment by retaining personal fireworks under use strict guidelines and impose severe penalties like tho cine and Mississauga for misuse. Let's ensure that responsible residents can still continue to enjoy their festivities safely, while those who violate the rules are held accountable. Thank you for your. Consideration and I can answer any questions anybody might have. Thank you very much for your presentation. Let me just check. Okay. I do have one from Councillor. Buildings, please. Yes to you, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to ask because you mentioned Mississauga as an. Example. So. Do they have an appropriate safe discharge distance? Setbacks from schools, residential properties. Do you know if that's in place. So off the top of my head, I do not know. What their exact distance or setbacks are, but I do know. That their legal dates, legal times. Then people are allowed to use at home. And. Even if you shop at one of our stores. We ask how much space you have, and we can. Direct. Product that's safe for you to use. If you got space, we can get you, like. Bigger fireworks. And

if you're in a smaller space, we can recommend you fireworks. You could safely use. I don't know what Miss Saga's exact rule is for distance wise. However. I know that what they're trying to do is. They're trying to just get rid of the nuisance, get rid of the after hours. Get rid of the days that are not legal. And the best way to do that is penalize. Those who. Are. Creating the nuisance versus penalizing those who are safely using because the people who are going to break the rules, they're going to break them no matter what. Whereas people who are safely, law abiding. They're the ones who are going to be like, okay, now. I can't do them anymore. And that's what's happening in Brampton. Whereas I live in Brampton. I hear fireworks every single day, and they're not even buying them from us. I don't. Know where they're getting it from. I've seen 500 grams cakes going off on a Thursday night. And you can't buy those at any of our shops. We don't sell them. Where they're getting from. They're just turning to a different market. Okay, so, last question. Okay, because you don't know Mrs. Saga's requirements, but. You were selling it. It's just an average size backyard. You've got neighbors around.

You. So. What is that? Safer discharge distance. Is it like 30 meters, 40 meters? Do you even have an. Idea. I do have an idea, actually. Any ground effects, fireworks. You could get away with 10ft and it'd be safe to use. So we have. Fountains that you can use in a 15 meters difference, and we have fireworks that you need 60. Meters regulations. Every single firework that we carry, which is canadian federally regulated by the ERD. Has safe distances right on the package. So it's not only on the consumer. Like if you go to any of our stores, our staff. Is educated. To teach the consumer, educate the consumer and answer any questions. I have a 15 foot space. What can I use? Okay, you can only use ground spinner. Sparklers. And at most, maybe aroma candle. Okay. Thanks for your help. You're welcome, Councillor. O'Rourke. Then Councillor busatill through. You may to the delegate. I'm just. Curious. Do you at your locations or do you know of cities where. The salesperson at the point of sale is required to provide the local information. These are the days. These are the hours. Here's some safety

information. Yes. Every city that provides it, we have them on site, so. Most cities, depending on the permitting system, we get inspected by some cities, we get inspected by, bylaw and fire. Some is just fire, but any city that requires any documentations we do provide it. Like, for example, like in the city of Toronto, we're selling fireworks right now for Dawali in the city of Toronto. You need a permit to set off fireworks for the. Walley. However, you don't need a permit for Victoria to a candidate. Why that doesn't make sense to me. However, that's how it is. So we do have documentation. At the tail that goes into every bag that has each city's rules and regulations and. It also has the penalties involved if you're not abiding by those rules. So through you. Mayor Guthrie, do you happen to know if the city of Gulf is doing that now? Off the top of my head. I do not believe the city of Guelph is doing. That. Okay, thanks. And Councillor Busatill. Yes, thank you. And through the mayor. You were talking about rules and regulations and point of sale. I'm just curious. When you sell fireworks, do you ask the purchaser if they're home insurance? Allows backyard fireworks. That is not a question

we ask ourselves. No. That is it. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming. Appreciate it. All right, next I believe in person is Elik Chachoni. Front row keener. Thank you very much for coming back. I believe so. Thank you very much. Alex and I'll turn over to you. Go right ahead. Thank you, Mary Gothary, and thanks again for counsel. For considering this. And thanks for staff for all your hard work in putting together materials. I just wanted to first briefly respond to a question that Councillor orc, I believe, raised at the last meeting, which was the split. Between the amount of consumer versus professional fireworks. My understanding in Canada is it depends on the year. But it's anywhere from 50% to 90% consumer side. So more consumer fireworks for sure. Are sold. I hope that answers the question from last time. In terms of my presentation tonight, just as a very brief reminder. My background is I practice environmental municipal law, and I do a little bit of pro bono animal law work to the side. I won't go over my whole presentation

last time because of course, the whole was here. But last time I spoke about sort of three heads of concerns with fireworks, there's the environmental there's the impacts on humans and then there's the impact on animals. So I see that staff has put forward and Councillor is considering a proposal that would see a permitting. System, which I think is a huge improvement. I absolutely support that approach. As I'll go into, I think that the city can consider going a bit further than that, but I think it's already a big improvement. It was. A little bit unclear to me as to whether this would include a ban on the sale of consumer fireworks because that wasn't in the memo prepared by staff. But I would support a ban on the sale of consumer fireworks as well. A permitting system would be a massive improvement. It addresses a lot of the nuisance type claims that we see, right. The kind of things that Ms. Markham spoke of, including people shooting each other. With roman candles and that kind of thing. It also reduces the amount. Of noise that is happening outside of the previously regulated windows. Right. So previously, if you could light fireworks on Canada Day. You'd see a lot of them the day before, the

day after. A few days before and after that kind of thing, so that's a huge improvement. However. I think the city should consider. An outright ban. And the reason is because a ban on the consumer use or in other words, a permitting system. While it does address. A lot of these nuisance concerns, it doesn't address some of the more fundamental concerns. And I'll just give you two examples. The first is. The risk that it has on animals, for example. We see that the majority of dogs and cats are afraid of fireworks. This impacts hundreds and thousands. Of animals in the city. Industrial grade fireworks, the ones that are likely to be subject to permits are quite a lot louder. Right. We're talking about the difference between maybe 120 decibels for consumer a little. Bit less sometimes and closer to 150 decibels. And it's a logarithmic. Scale, right? It's a lot louder. It also is the industrial side fireworks that result in the deaths of Canada geese and other migratory birds typically not consumer fireworks. So a permitting system helps, but it doesn't address those issues. The second one, of course, is PTSD. And I do appreciate that one of the previous delegates says that she

has PTSD and manages that. I don't know if it's related to loud bangs or not all sorts of different kinds of PTSD, but people who have PTSD really do suffer from these. So the decision that the city is facing, I don't mean to put it so bluntly. But is, are we going to. Put sort of the joy and happiness that some people experience through fireworks, myself included. I love fireworks. They're a lot of fun. I used to light a lot of fireworks when I was a kid. But that's the trade off, right? This versus the known harm that animals are. Going to experience almost certain deaths that some animals are going to experience. And the environmental impact from fireworks. So I guess I would close by saying what the proposal on the table is a huge improvement and I support it. I'm really glad that Councillor is. Considering it. I thank staff for putting it together, and I think the city has the opportunity to go a bit further if they really wanted. To consider the impacts on animals and human health. So with that, happy to answer any questions and thank you so much for your time. Thanks for coming back again, Alex. And thank you for your presentation. Is there any follow up for Alex? Not this time. So thank you very much.

Thank you so much. We're interesting here. From a media group? Yes. See someone coming down here.

Welcome, orinder. Thank you very much for coming. It's over to you. It's. An honor to be here, Mr. Mayor. Counsel, the clerks, police, fire chief. So. My name is Warren der Singh. They call me binder in the community. I wear many different types of turbines in different colors because. I represent some faith groups. The Sikh religion. Sports, culture, community, everything. And I do a lot of community outreach for the last 35, 40 years. Why I'm here today is because I want to give you guys the perspective. There's a lot of yes, we want to ban things and then. We think. Should we have done that? So I'll give you an example of Brampton. Right now. We in Canada right now are facing a massive immigration influx right now, and it's from different. Different communities, different backgrounds. As Guelph is changing too. Now when we're doing personal fireworks. Yes, you've probably saw some of the. Videos that happen in Mountain Mississauga. I was the one that

was cleaning the next day. So even being in the media and everything. How I see everything right now. It's a time of education. There's a lot of new Canadians. They don't know the rules and the regulations. I work very closely with a lot of municipalities, all three levels of government. And it's all about education. The bylaw officers are so overburdened, they will not be able to handle it. They can't. Brampton. Yes. They took an emotional thing. But now, guess what? The city is allowing the hindu temple. There was 50,000 people there, and that was a half an hour to fireworks show. This week again, the city of Brampton is doing another Dawali festival. Right, that's. Going to have fireworks, too. So the city, now the municipalities are the ones who are going to be picking up the cause. We had the drone shows. Half of these drone shows are coming. Into their own problems now, like you see in Caladen. I was with the mayor, Olivia Chow, on the weekend for a two day devali festival there. Was 100,000 people there, and they had a

firework show, so. A lot of yes. We are coming. Into new issues. We have an age difference, we have a generation difference, but. A lot of like, say we look at back home in India right now, fireworks are normal. They're there for all your festivals, your religious functions, your independence days and everything. So I think more. It should be. The municipality should. Have penalize the individuals that do wrong. Because then the cities and the municipalities. Or the levels of government are the ones who are going to be burdened because the communities want something to do. And we're looking at fireworks, what, six times a year? Throughout the year, we have six major things. But now you look at even Halloween. Halloween has been. Shadowed this year by Dawali. Like the previous guy said, I deal with it in the city of Brampton. The complaints are up. The fireworks are going daily now every wedding function. We have the fireworks going off. Bylaw cannot handle the

load anymore. It should be penalizing the people that do wrong, not the families, the kids. They can't. Even pick up the streamers anymore. And a lot of the places of worship are being asked by these new Canadians. And or even the kids that we want to do fireworks like we used to do when I was growing up. But the places of worship, they're financially strapped where they can't. Pay for this anymore. So I wanted to give you a different type of perspective, that once we rush into something, right? I think there's more to it. There's cultural issues, there's growing forward as municipalities. These type of burdens. I remember you guys see CBC hockey night in Punjabi where you're. Looking at the individual that created that when I brought OHL hockey Punjabi to the OHL. I still with them but it's all about education. So, I mean, make the story. If the sellers. They need to educate, and then. Okay. So again, like to thank you for your time. I just think that there's more to this, instead of just a fireworks going on and. Off.

I know people complain, but. People are complaining about everything. But there's more to it. As the communities are growing day by day, so thank you very kindly. Thank you very much for your presentation. Appreciate it. And let me see if there's a follow up for you. There is not. Thank you for bringing Punjabi to hockey. Thank you. That's great. Thank you for coming. I believe in person. Our next delegation is. Priam Vias. And I'm so sorry if I'm not saying that right. But come on down.

Welcome. Did I say your name right? Yeah, that was right. Hey. All right. Perfect. All right, go right ahead. So. Good evening, everybody. Today I want to address the city of goals. Consideration of change in fireworks. Bylaw with permit only. So now I was just reading the memo that was on Gulf's. Website available. And in the follow up question, it says the permit fees $208 only. But it also says that somebody require insurance as well, animal safety management, a licensed display supervisor, and they also give a link to fireworks operator certification and special event processed. So for an individual to obtain that. License. It takes a lot of money and a lot of time, so now. We have fixed permit fee of $200. The insurance going to cost somebody around $1000 to $2,000. The animal safety management, it says that it can be void if everything's. Good. The license display supervisor. They do not even get out of their bed for less than $5,000. So now if somebody's spending $8,000, Just to do permits and

regulated things. And over top now they need fireworks to use in that. Permit, right? So if I'm spending $8,000 to just obtain a permit, do I'm going to do a small show. Obviously not. I'm going to do a big show, right? And that big show, people are going to use the professional grade firework to justify their headache. Hassle and all the process they've been through. Our main motive in the last meeting. Was to reduce noise, reduce pollution, this and that, right? Once this kind of the professional fireworks come in, they do more noise, they go more higher, they require more safety procedures, too. The same thing. City of Brampton. They ban the fireworks, CT said. No problem. We'll do fireworks for you. What happens? There was more complaints about cities firewall. People going to complain for this and that. And we cannot keep everybody happy for sure too, right? So that's it for me. I'll be happy to answer any follow up questions. And that license really takes a lot of money and a lot of time. Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentation. And let me see if there's a follow up.

For you. Thank you for your information. There is not. But again, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Amanda Tanner is next joining us, I believe, by video. Through you. Mr. MArY we don't have Amanda Tanner or the following delegate Jordan the next delegate we have available is presh Sony. All right. Thank you. I believe you're joining us by video, so we'll just see if. You can turn your camera on there and we'll wait for you.

We do have the delegate press joined. Press? You just need to either unmute or turn on. Your video in order to delegate. We'll just give you a minute to do that there. We go. Yes. Hello, fresh.

It's Mayor Gutrie. We can both hear and see you, so thank you for joining. Us. We'll turn it over to you to do your presentation. Go right ahead. Wonderful. Honorable mayor. Thank you so much and respected Councillor members. Big Namaste from me. My name is Paresh. Sony I am the executive director for a nonprofit organization here called Hindu Legacy in London, Ontario. And London has gone through something very similar to what Guelph is. Going through, which is the debate around backyard fireworks. Now. Just please realize that all my comments are respectful and I am all about safety. We are all about safety. In fact, in London, I think I just want to impress upon a couple of points and not to reiterate what has been so eloquently presented. We work very closely with the fire department, with the mayor, with the city council. And the CNFA as well, and we have very successfully. Done. A fireworks awareness and safety campaign in London, and as a result of that, over the last two years, despite. Certain factions wanting to close them down. They have actually had

a very successful Diwali celebration. With backyard fireworks. And I think. The idea of enforcement is difficult. London currently has close to 15,000 people of indian origin. Many of them are Hindus and it is going to become sort of a mini Brampton problem. Over here. So I think that's going to be a big issue no matter what position. We take. And I think that goes for Guelph. The other angle. I think that the other point I'd like to add is. Backyard fireworks is like the core of the valley. And now that we have over a million Hindus, in Canada. And if there's one thing that unifies Hindus all across the planet, it's. Diwali. And if you take the valley, if you take the sweets out of the valley. If you take the family gatherings out of Diwali, if you take the backyard fireworks out, of the valley. You, in essence, have inadvertently destroyed an 800 year old tradition. Now, that said, I think the other gentleman from Brampton said it very eloquently. The average sale, and

he can probably be more. Actual data. But in London, the average family that we know, and we know about 1200 to 1300. Families. The average spend on fireworks is about $50. They're doing roman candles or they're doing the fountains. They're just doing. It for about 1520 minutes, and that's we are done. So I think we definitely. Agree that there are some rogue elements. And for those rogue elements. If we penalize an entire community, I mean. This will hurt the community a lot. And I think Canada is all about diversity. It's all about religious acceptance. And I think this is the one thing when it comes to hindu festivals. That this is actually a very important thing. Through hindu legacy. We've actually done a report on air quality on the AQi index. We have objective data about that. We have 15 psychiatrists who have. Talked about ptsd. And again, in no way trying to be disrespectful of what is going on. We have noise studies and we have a lot of things, and I think. My plea would be this, that the gentleman talked about how

the permitting process is, in essence, it's a showstopper for any backyard fireworks. And I think the key is there are always pockets of people who are rogue elements that ruin it for the rest of the crowd. So I would highly. Encourage. I would plea to the city of Guelph to reconsider this and to let the backyard fireworks be and take London as a model of how we can do safety campaigns and education, and we are very much closely linked to the authorities that we will help them identify any rogue elements to ensure that we keep this privilege. So that is my statement. And again, I really appreciate the time to let me speak and thank you so much. Namaste. Thank you so much for your presentation as well. Let me see if there's a follow. Up from my colleagues here. It doesn't look like it. There is not. But again, thank you for joining us. Now we have next Sarah Rosenberg from E. G. Canada, Inc. I think, joining us by phone. And Sarah, if you can hear me, it's Mayor Guthrie. You just need to hit star. Six to be able to unmute. Yes.

Can you hear me? Yes. You're coming through. Okay, great. Yeah. Thank you. You can go right ahead. Yeah. Thank you. So. Yeah. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today. I operate a fireworks business located at 183 Silver Creek Parkway north and Gulf. And I was present at the last Councillor meeting regarding the proposed firework ban, and I just wanted to express my concerns about the process and the potential consequences of this decision and. I do apologize if it's a bit repetitive. I know that there's been some. People that have gone before me. As I listened to the council's discussion. That meeting. I wish I could chime in. To help. During the debate, a number of questions and uncertainties came up regarding fireworks displays. Pirate license processes and cost, and so on. Along with my colleagues, I have many years of experience in the industry and in a unique position to answer these questions and to. Help develop practical strategies for the future. You may object that as a stakeholder in the industry, I have an agenda and I'm concerned with my livelihood. And that is true. This is my main source of income and it has been for my family for the

past 14 years. But I've also been witnessed in my years to many strategies adopted by different Councillor and I have seen what works and what does not work and what has positive consequences for communities and what has resulted in unwanted ones. We in the industry have valuable practical knowledge on how the council's proposal may succeed or fail, and what it will mean for our community if it is adopted in its current form. I'm simply asking if the Councillor consider these implications, who they impact and conduct further research. And alternatives before deciding on a blanket ban. Banning fireworks would have serious consequences for canadian small businesses. The fireworks industry is one of the few remaining entirely canadian owned and operated industries left in Canada. And other companies proud to be a canadian small business. We provide employment for university students during key seasons, keeping them in Guelph over the summer and equipping them with valuable entrepreneurial skills they can use to enrich this community and go forward in their lives. If this band goes forward, it will directly harm businesses and employees rely on this income without adequately address. Addressing any identified safety concerns. I want to use an example, actually. Of difference here in elroy band and unintended consequences. So if you consider prohibition in

the early 20th century, which initially reduced alcohol consumption by 30% to 50%. It did actually lead to a surge in illegal production, organized crime, and health risks from unregulated alcohol. By contrast, education focused initiatives like mothers against drunk driving have proven to be far more effective. So mad achieved a lasting 50% reduction in drug driving fatalities. For awareness, public education. And targeted laws. So rather than attempting to ban alcohol outright, It's been proven that having effective education. Was a much better solution. Education strategies are far more successful at addressing risky behaviors and minimizing negative consequences than outright bank blanket bans. An educational approach to fireworks could yield similar results. Our industry is already subject to federal regulations and we could build on these by enhancing our promotion of safe and responsible fireworks use. This would involve working together to raise awareness about safety guidelines, established designated times and places for fire cues and provide training for those purchasing consumer products such measure. Measures would mitigate concerns while preserving the benefits that fireworks bring to local businesses and community events. I truly don't believe we should

ban things due to a small percentage of people who abuse their usage. Today it's fireworks. But what's next? Loud music, candles, alcohol? We as an industry have a commitment to education, and if you remove our presence by banning fireworks, and you have effectively removed a centralized education resource to the public on how to safely and responsibly use fireworks, and I am certain that this will lead to an increase in misuse of fireworks because they can still have a chip right to their doors, or they can go. Outside of the community and purchase them and bring them home. I urge the Councillor to consider this alternative path. So instead of banning fireworks outright, let's. Take a collaborative approach to address any safety issues. Consulting with experts and educating the public would not only be more effective, but would also protect small businesses that contribute to our local. Economy and provide valuable jobs. We should ensure that decisions are made based on comprehensive evidence and involve those who will be directly impacted the fireworks industry is a significant part of our cultural celebration and supports canadian livelihoods with small businesses already facing so many challenges every single year. The last thing we need is a decision that could undermine one of the few remaining canadian owned industries. Let's not resort to bans when there are better proven methods for addressing public safety and community concerns. And if

you have any questions, I'm happy to address them, but. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much. Sarah. We appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you for making the time. Let me see if there is any questions. There is one. Sarah, if you could just hang on. It's Councillor Gibson. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Through Mr. Merritt. Thank you, Sarah. Great delegation. I guess. I've been meaning to ask this question for. A while, and I just want to give you a few more minutes to talk about it. It doesn't feel like we are going to. Be to me. Anyway, it doesn't feel like we're going to be getting rid of the nuisance fireworks folks that just set them off at 1130 12:00 at night. To me, it feels like we're really targeting the sort of the law abiding folks here and we're still going to have those nuisance people. Doing their thing. Is that a safe assessment? Is that sort of what you've been getting? At. Yeah. I think that really we should be focusing on education initiatives. I think a lot of citizens are people that are misusing them are just not educated on how to use them properly, and so we worked with other like in Toronto. I know that my colleagues have worked with the city to hand

out brochures, letting them know. What the exact bylaws states like, where they can safely light fireworks. The times they can safely let them. I don't think many people know that. And so we'd be willing to work with wealth in the same capacity. Where? We would even pay for this ourselves. We could draw up pamphlets which go over the different bylaws that you guys have put in place and any other safety initiatives you have. And I just think it's education. I really don't think it has anything to do with. Them being legal. I just don't think that they know when and how they can use them safely. Thank you. I don't think there's anybody else. So, Sarah, thank you again for bringing your presentation to us. Okay, great. Thank you so much again for your time, and have a wonderful. Evening. Yes. You as well. Thank you. I believe in person is Tom Jacobs from Rocket Fireworks Inc. Right in the front row. So thank you. Tom. Come on down. And welcome. I'll turn it over to you. Thank you very much for having me. So

I think we've all been talking about education. Is a paramount import. It's very important. But I think you also need the teeth to. Back it up. So with programs like Mad, which Sarah mentioned quite rightly, education was a huge component, but you also had pretty strong fines to back up that education. To enter brutal people who. Were engaging in the behavior, in the illegitimate behavior. So we do have Mississauga who made a hundred. They have a fine up to $100,000. And I think in the last meeting it was mentioned that you would look to other communities, you couldn't do something unique and totally novel, and it can be totally outside the bounds of say what a neighboring community might do. And our industry. We're all for making a huge fine. I agree with the councillor and. We just raised the point. That there's. Good families who do fireworks with their little kids in good communities, and they bring everyone together and it's an amazing time of celebration. And then we have the jerks who. We were all young ones. And maybe some people, some of them are the same people that go to the park and play loud music all night, and it keeps me up around my house, so. It's not always fireworks. But

the thing is, if we need to send a very strong message, so if we do to adopt a strong fine like that. I say, why not make the fine $100,000 we need to send a message to people that it's not acceptable. A lot of the comments, and I think a lot of the reason for us being here is because. There has been rampant use, which accelerated a lot under Covid, and it is actually on the decline, but there's too much use outside. The specified days. And I think if we could keep this to two or three days where our families celebrated Victoria candidate. And it was the good people who are completely behaved and who are open and receptive to education, then we would have something. And the problem is that we have usage outside these days, but we have to send a strong message as a community and through the courses, not tolerate it. And if we need to make an example of people, we should make an example of them. But the $500 fine or $1,000 fine just doesn't cut it. So we've been doing this a long time. We've worked with a lot of Councillor. And we've seen cities where things have worked very effectively, and we've seen cities where their initiatives have not worked. So I would say, by the way, an answer to another question that was raised. Mrs. Saga,

the distance is. 26ft 8 meters from trees or houses, residences or combustibles. That's the distance that they use. Okay. And just to mention a few of the other points. So people. It's true that people who are using fireworks illegally are illegitimately they're. Not going to stop. So having a ban and making something illegal that people are going to engage in anyway, it's. Not going to help. But as I said, it does end up punishing the regular people. So you don't want to drive sales underground? Because that's a dangerous activity. And with our life strong message of advocating for heavy fines. Again, the education comes into it. We have to teach people. That we work with. Cfna we'll work with. The city, and we'll promote education, which. We want to limit the use. We don't want this rampant usage because we know that. In the end. Life is a compromise, right? Some people like fireworks, some people don't. Maybe it's 50 50 here in wealth. Maybe it's 60 40, but. You can't just eliminate everything. So

we think with if we can take steps and measures. To limit it to two or three days. Then I think we have something that's fair for the people who want it and fair for the people who don't. That's all I have to say today. Thank you very much for your time. And if you have any questions? I've been in the industry for many years, and I'd. Be happy to answer them. Thank you. Knowing the distance of the Mississauga bylaw made us all think that you've. Probably been doing this for a long time. So that was obvious right away. Thank you very much. Let me see if there is a follow. Up. There is one. Councillor Chug. Go right ahead. Through you. Mr. Mayor, you mentioned there are initiatives. In other cities that have worked. Can you elaborate on that for us? Yeah. So some cities, like for example, Edmonton was a city that had some problems, and they worked very closely with CFNA. To have like CFNA as a license, as retailers. So the long term stakeholders like us, who. This is our profession and livelihood and year round livelihood. We know what we're doing. So it's easy for us to educate an incident in our interest to educate. But sometimes you have. Say you

have a convenience store selling something and they don't know much about. The product, and so. We have. CFA with licensing vendors so that they could educate them in advance and say, no, it's not safe to hold this product in your hand, and you need to know a bit about this. Product before you sell it. And that was very effective. And then some other cities we've yet to see what this high fine will do in Mississauga, but I do have high hopes for that one because. If you show that you're willing to prosecute and that the fines are heavy, I think you will send a strong message to people that the community doesn't accept it. Thank you for your question. Great. And thank you very much for your presentation. Take care. Thank you. So much. Thank you. All right. David Calder. Is David here? Yes. I see someone coming down here. By the way. Thanks, everyone.

We're moving through the list, so appreciate it. David. Welcome. I'll turn it over to you. Thank you. I just want to give you my experience. 20 years living in Guelph. And every Victoria day in our backyard, except for one year. In Covid. We've always had. A firework show. For me personally, it was something that, as a child, when we moved to Canada. My dad started that off with Victoria Day, and I still remember those fireworks in amazement. It was just something where we had our neighbors in. It was a sense of community. So when we moved to Guelph. For my young children, it was an opportunity to bring the neighbors. Together to celebrate and meet. For 20 years, we've been doing. For 20 years, we've, been doing that. And I will say on our street, for many of the new neighbors, The Victoria Day celebration of fireworks is the first time they actually meet the neighbors, so it is an opportunity to build. It is an opportunity to build a community. In that 20 years, those young children that came. Are now coming back. They're driving across the city and they're bringing France to our house. Okay. The show has continued to grow bigger and

bigger and bigger, and a community has. Got bigger and bigger and bigger every year. There will be people when we're done, the show. I walk up on the deck and there'll be people I've never met. Before. And I think that's just absolutely wonderful. And I think that's something that the city should be trying to promote. Ban is my next door neighbor. So I'll tell you a little story about. Ban. One Victoria day, his family went camping. And then on a Monday, I'm looking out and I put all away. The discarded fireworks. And they're all out in our backyard again. And there's band. Line on his back. He said, ben, what are you doing? And he says, I'm envisioning. What the show would have been like. And that was a young little seven year old. He never missed another show. Ben is my partner now. Actually, I'm Ben's assistant. Every Victoria Day, Ben and I, we go out, we get the fireworks, we dig our holes in. The back. We check to see. What is our distance to the trees? Fat boy does a great job. You walk into there. You go in there and you understand how the fireworks spread out, what distances they go

is clearly marked on the fireworks. Ben and I wear our glasses. We have our pails of sand. We understand. Which fireworks we have to dig into. Which ones we pack around. We spread it out. We lay it out to how the show is going to go, how we build a crescendo. How we build to the showstopper. And. For us, safety is a premium. Like I said, Ben and I, we counter off each other again. Ben's now 17. So he's been doing this with me now for ten years. And we look at it as a responsible, safe approach. To joy. To community. We have food, we have drink, neighbors, friends and family. But we take it responsibly. And like I said, when you go into the fire, York Road, fat boy, everything is laid out. You have an understanding of what you're doing. It's well regulated. It's safe. It's a greek community. Both. Just my personal experience, so I just wanted to share that with you

tonight. Because, honestly, as Councillor Gibson had said, If you're putting in permits and you're putting in regulations, well, that all comes to a stop. I'm not going to be doing it that 20 years. We've had our friends, our family, our neighbors over, and what has been proposed puts an end to that. A community building event that would be ended. And that's why I speak tonight. And I'm terribly nervous. I'm scared as hell of public speaking, so it means so much for me to come. Out here to say that tonight, to just let you know, to be reflective of those, and it's not as you know, it's not just me, and I love it in our neighborhood because we have our show. And you can see for me on that Victoria Day weekend or Kana day weekend. I think it's celebr. Celebration. It's wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, David. You did just fine. All right. We're easy going here, right? Actually, yes, it was okay. We

appreciate everyone coming in here with their opinions. It's all good, okay? So I do have one question from Councillor O'Rourke for you and then Busatill. As well, okay? So just stick around. Thanks, Marica. Through you to our delegate. You did a great job. Oh, thank you. It sounds like a fun time. I'm just curious. So you've been doing it for 20. Years, obviously on a large enough property that you have all the proper setbacks, et cetera. I'm just curious. When you buy fireworks in Guelph, are you given Guelph's. Rules at the point of sale. Are somebody telling you, you know? You can't put these off in the park. You have a permit to put them off. In the park, which is our bylaw. Is there any information about what our restrictions are in? The city currently. So that's one thing that I think we could from the education. I believe we have to. Safest way of doing it if there's a safer way. I'd absolutely look to learn that. When I walk into now again, I've had 20 years of kind of experience. I know there are palm flits. I may not necessarily pick it up, but. When I walk into the store, it's more the idea of understanding what's out. There. They have the visuals. It's written. On the. I kind of take it

as my own. Responsibility. And as we've heard tonight with so many other communities in which English may not be the first language. I think that's an opportunity for Guelph to promote diversity, right? So, yeah, I think more education. Absolutely. I'm sorry. I hope I answered your question. You did. Thank you. And Councillor Busatill is next. Thank you. And through the mayor. You did a great job. Thank you so. Do. I just have a question that I asked another delegate? Obviously, you're doing this in the backyard of your home. Do you know if your home insurance permits fireworks? No. Well, that would be in the small print, and I've never. I'm sorry, but I've. Never really. They always get you in the small print. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. But again, the approach. We've always taken has been to be as safe as possible. I see. No other questions. But again, thank you so much for coming down and joining us tonight. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Our next delegation has withdrawn. So I believe in person is Michael Rose. Okay. Michael's not here. And we all know Lisa Ville from the Guelph Humane

Society. Thank you for coming, Lisa. Nice to see you.

And I'll turn it over to you whenever you're ready. Go ahead. Perfect. Thanks. So much. Good evening. My name is Lisa Viet and I'm the executive director of the Gulf Humane Society. I've been involved in the field of animal welfare and wildlife conservation for only over 20 years of my career. For the past 14 years, I've worked specifically to help improve the health and welfare of animals in the Guelph and Wellington county community. I appreciate the opportunity to speak this evening. I'm here to address the profound and often overlooked impact that fireworks have on pets and wildlife. As an advocate for animal welfare, the Golf Humane Society wants to bring awareness to the reality that while fireworks may bring joy to many of us, they have severe and harmful consequences for the animals with whom we share our community. We like to provide. Support for the staff recommendation to move to a new permit based fireworks bylaw, which would ban personal use of fireworks. Taking it one step further, we'd also like to urge Councillor to consider an overall ban. In fireworks in our community. I'd like to emphasize that the support for the fireworks ban, whether it be residential and or professional aligns with the view of the majority of respondents to the city's

engagement survey on the fireworks bylaw. Fireworks are an overwhelming sensory assault on animals. Studies have shown that noise from fireworks which can reach levels as high as 120 to 170 decibels. Can trigger intense fear and stress, both in domestic pets and in wild animals. For context, that's louder than a gunshot. So let's first look at the impact on companion animals. There. Is a high prevalence of noise phobia that has been well documented, and companion dogs and likely significantly impacts. Other companion species as well. The loud, unpredictable explosions created by fireworks. Are a key trigger for noise phobia. For many dogs, the responses to fireworks are extreme, and the impact not only on the animal, but on their family is severe. In fact, a scientific study demonstrated that more than half of dog owners reported a significant distress in their pets during fireworks, with symptoms ranging from shaking and hiding to injurious self harm. I'm sure it comes as no surprise to any of us that have had a dog. With a severe reaction to fireworks.

And I hear that all too often in my conversations with dog owners in this community, and now it affects their enjoyment of. Fireworks related holidays related to this intense fear response. There's also considerable evidence that fireworks cause many animals to become so frightened that they run from otherwise familiar environments and people and sadly become lost or life threatening situations such as risk of being hit by a car. We have seen this scenario firsthand at GH. GHS with an increase in reports of lost pets the evening of and the day following fireworks. Related holidays, the impacts of fireworks on wildlife can be on an even wider scale. The most well documented effects are on bird species. The loud and spontaneous explosions of fireworks can incite. Flight responses and disorientation, and many bird species using weather radar. One study demonstrated that on average, approximately 1000 times as many birds were in flight during a fireworks event than on another night. Any other night. While fireworks related disturbance decreased with distance, overall flight activity remained elevated tenfold. Distances up to 10 km. So a dramatically wide scale effect.

Like in companion animals at GHS, we have seen the impact on wildlife directly. We've observed multiple events of candy Gee's death and injuries that have occurred on roadways during or immediately following a fireworks display as a result of disorientation of the birds that cause them to fly directly into traffic. It stands to reason that a considerable amount of the panic and fear experienced by birds and other types of wildlife. Likely occurs away from human observation, but that makes it no less important to consider. In fact, in the city's community engagement survey respondents ranked scares wildlife quotes scares wildlife. As the number one statement about fireworks and a list of ten items. So what are the alternatives? Well, thankfully, there are solutions that it can allow us to continue to celebrate without negatively impacting animals. Many cities around the world have turned to drone light shows as well as laser light displays. Both can be choreographed into unique, colorful and vibrant. Shows, minus the explosive sounds. So in closing, fireworks are major animal welfare issue for companion animals and wildlife and suburban and urban areas, particularly those in regions where community use is uncontrolled. GHS supports the staff's recommendation to move to a new permit based

fireworks bylaw. Ban the use of personal fireworks. As we better understand and acknowledge the negative impacts fireworks can have, we have the ability and responsibility. Great. Snuck it in there. Lisa, beautiful job. Thank you. All right. Is there any questions for Lisa? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. By video. I think we have next is Victor. Chapnick from Kaboom. Fireworks Inc. I probably did not give enough oof to the word kaboom. But. Do we have a victoria? Hello. You hear me? Yes, we can both hear and see you. Thank you for joining us and. You're up to five minutes. Starts right now. Go right ahead. Well, my thanks to Mayor Gothary and members of Councillor, for allowing me to address this committee. My name is Dr. Victor Chapnick. I'm the founder and CEO of Kaboom. Fireworks. Kaboom has been a retailer and distributor of consumer fireworks for nearly 35 years. Kaboom offered. Just

to give you some background. Kaboom operates 80 retail locations across southern Ontario and distributes to major retailers who operate fireworks programs in over 130 municipalities in Ontario. Alone. In fact. Nearly all Ontario municipalities continue to allow both. The sale and use of consumer fireworks, including larger municipalities such as Toronto, Mississauga, London, Windsor Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo, Hamilton, Burlington, Oakville, St. Catherine's, Niagara, Ajax, Pickering, Whitby, Oshawa Kingston, Ottawa, Newmarket, Keswick and Barry. In all of these municipalities, sales are conducted in accordance with bylaws as well as federal explosives regulations, which provide comprehensive guidelines governing the display for sale of consumer fireworks. As part of these guidelines. A comprehensive set of safety instructions must be provided to every customer. In addition, all of these municipalities allow their residents to safely discharge fireworks without a permit on Victoria Day and Canada Day holidays, and in several communities, other cultural

holidays are permitted, including Dewaly and Lunar New Year. In fact, there have been only a few municipalities which have recently prohibited. Family fireworks, and it is our understanding that this has not even been shown to decrease fireworks related complaints. Conversely, a ban could increase the number of complaints. As published in the Brampton Guardian shortly after Dawali last year, there were over 1200 calls in two days made to the city of Branton about fireworks in spite of a band. In contrast, as noted in the. Staff report. Guelph fire responded to only ten calls about fireworks between 2022 and 2024 of which none were related to fires or injuries. Over the past two years, the cities of Toronto, London, Mississauga and Oshawa have all undertaken comprehensive reviews of their fireworks bylaws. These reviews consisted of engagement with both the public and the fireworks industry. In each case, the sale of consumer fireworks, as well as. Its use

on private property during fireworks holidays has continued to be allowed. The focus remains on education. And enforcement. We believe that if the sale and use of consumer fireworks are suddenly prohibiting. Wealth for Victoria Day, Canada Day and Dewali celebrations, thousands of residents and families will be very disappointed. The proposed restrictions will increase the need for police enforcement, as renegade uninsured vendors will surely pop up during long weekends to sell questionable product out of motor vehicles. There would also be a significant risk of sales to miners. Accordingly, we believe that the proposed restrictions would lead to. A reduced safety and a greater nuisance. Consumers could still choose to purchase products online or at adjacent municipalities, the staff report alleges that there will be no additional operational costs with the proposed new bylaw changes and that fireworks permit fees of $100 each. Related to organized events will offset enforcement staff costs. This is not realistic. It would

be our expectation that enforcement costs could be considerable and the permit fee application revenue would be negligible. Further in the report, it was noted that the Guelph police was under the impression that the enforcement would be carried out by Guel fire and not the police. However, it will be the police who will be receiving calls when fireworks continue to be discharged on Victoria Day and Canada. Day without a permit. It will also be the police who will. Be responsible for shutting down illegal vendors. With respect to the current bylaw. It was noted that in the report that the police do not have issues with fireworks in Guelph. It would be our recommendation that the Councillor implements option one or option two of the proposed options. This would be supported by the opinions of the Guelph chinese canadian cultural group. And the Guelph youth Councillor, the focus should be on education. Okay. Yeah, we just wanted to let you know that was your five minutes, but we heard that. Ending, I think sentenced to focus on education, I think is what you were just saying there at the end. Thank you, Victor. We appreciate that. Just

stick around to see if there's any questions, okay? There is not. But again, thank you very much for joining us. Okay. Is john luff here? No. Okay. How about Mark Matthews? No. And. Alim Kanji from the Canadian National Fireworks Association. And actually, I just turned the page. You seem to be our last. Aleem. So thank you very much for joining us, and whenever you're ready, I'll give you your five minutes, too. Thank you. Just a question before I start. Do I control. The green button. Thank you. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of Councillor and staff. Thank you for allowing me to spend a few. Minutes and talk to you this evening just by way of background. There we go. The Kennedy National Fireworks association represents over 3000. Folks in the industry. We also

represent enthusiasts. Vendors, of course, in this city, but also enthusiasts. We've heard from some of those individuals, of course, tonight, people that are involved in the sale. Of fireworks and those that enjoy fireworks. What underpins our organization is the commitment to public safety. And a safety based approach. To enforcement. We are obviously of the very strong opinion that industry and government must both accept the responsibility to create education, vendor certification and employee training for users, and I'll talk to you about that. A momentarily. This is our be a good neighbor program. We use this in cities across. The country it reminds people of. The goals of using fireworks. Prepare ahead of time, respect your community, celebrate responsibly, inform your neighbors be safe when using fireworks and cleanup. And it's born out of federal regulations. As well. Our vendor certification employee training program really puts the onus onto us. Anyone is allowed to take this program at no cost. We've seen communities interested in using this or elements of it within their own bylaws. And that's

something we'd certainly support. Again, putting. Education. At the point of sale and ensuring that folks here are doing that. So that's our certification. Employee training program. Folks in the room have received. These in hard copy but also digitally. They are our research publications for those viewing online, available at nationalfireworks, CA I'm happy to talk about any or all of them, including the banning of fireworks. Fireworks and animals. Interestingly, I printed off a press release from the Guelph Humane Society from June of this year that actually reads, if I can quote keeper pets indoors, ensure your pets are kept inside. During fireworks displays and create a safe, considerable comfortable spot for them when they are safe. And we actually support that. I think that's a really good idea. From the Gulfy man society doesn't say anything in here about getting rid of the industry. From the June press release. We also have a research paper. On silent fireworks and drones. Happy to talk a little bit about that. And, of course, health impacts. Distilling some of the myths that are present around health impacts. Now, the

report before us today, I know we spoke about this, a little bit of it, and I don't want to be repetitive because there was been a lot of great content shared. This evening. The option before you in terms of a total ban really would not. Be palpable, I think, for the people of this community. They would simply be able to purchase online or in other neighboring communities. This is a great community. Unfortunately, it's not an island and people will purchase elsewhere. In terms of noise complaints, staff were very gracious, and I just wanted to give a shout out to staff for providing this. Information. Zero point. 3% of all bylaw calls made to the city were from fireworks. That is woefully low and probably one of the lowest of any area. It doesn't include Councillor calls, but even layering that in it is still incredibly low and yeartodate in 2024, it's zero point. 2% of all bylaw calls. I just wanted to mention that it's not a top complaint. Never has been, and year to date is not. So I guess coming back to some of the questions on the 1 October what's the issue

we're trying to solve. Really good question. Is this really a community issue? We don't certainly believe it is as compared certainly to other complaints that are being made. Is there a legal liability on injuries? Certainly there could be if there's a ban in this city and somebody decides. To conduct a lawsuit against the city. By virtue of a band that certainly would have its challenges of being enforced. Drones and laser shows. Great alternatives. We can look at St. Catherine's, Kelowna, Montreal. Those are cities and examples where they've actually moved from drones back to fireworks because of community opposition education enforcement. Obviously nothing underpins that. And the current fine increase signal that was talked about earlier. I do have a compromise solution. I wanted to put in front of Councillor, which actually speaks to a lot of the elements of the report and supports that, with the exception of not allowing. Permits for fireworks use. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Elaine. Thank you very much for your presentation. And let me just see if there's a

follow up for. Okay. Yes. Councillor Gibson, please. Thank you. For your presentation. I guess it's a theme that I'm hearing, and I just want to confirm. With you. No one that we've heard on the pro fireworks side tonight has been. Against more education and even enforcement. It's more or less, I think where the line stops is just allowing the consumers. To still participate in the activity. Am I clear in hearing. I don't think I've heard it from anybody that they're against. More stringent enforcement and education at point of sale. For you, Mr. Mayor. To the Councillor. Absolutely. I think from users in the community that we've heard from. Industry perspective that we've heard from. More. Education is a good thing, and education is the best tool for enforcement as we've seen, quite frankly, in cities across the country. And nothing should underpin. Education and knowing the rules in each community, and every community has. A

different kind of demographic, different ingredients. Whether. They are rural or close to bodies of water or in environmentally sensitive areas. And we see bylaws that reflect that. And so. Certainly having more education, we believe, at the point of sale. Is going to be critical. To moving forward and that continuous education. The same way we remind people not to mix drinking and driving. That's. A common message that we hear. We're ready to do our part to make sure that people understand the rules right here in the city of Guelph. I hope that answers your. Question, councilor. Thank you. Thank you. Seeing nothing further. Thank you very much, lien, for your presentation too. Thank you. And that brings us. To the end of the delegations. That went great. Thank you very much for everyone. There was some correspondence as well. There, of course. So bringing us back to. The recommendation that has flown from committee to tonight. The recommendation from staff is that staff be directed to

create a new permit based fireworks bylaw. To replace and to repeal the fireworks bylaw from 19 931-4362. Is there someone that would be willing to move that for me? Okay, Councillor Alt and Busa. Too. Okay, busatill. And. I'll start a list. Okay. Yeah. Gibson, then. Alt, please. Gibson. Alt and Kate. Thank you. Through Mr. Mayor, I forwarded amendment along. To city clerks yesterday. My intentions. Okay. Do you have that? Okay, you're moving that. And is there a seconder for that by Councillor Koran? Okay. I'll just read it out loud. Sorry about that, Councillor Kevin. So sorry. I'll. Just read it out loud. That Councillor direct staff to exclude novelty devices, I. E. Sparklers party. Poppers, as defined by the Explosives act, type f, from requiring a permit for their purchase or discharge. Thank you,

Mr. Merrill. Just take my two minutes. The fact is. The bylaw. Is a bit coarse. I do appreciate staff's work on this. Don't get me wrong, this is never personal. But when I had my conversations with staff, I did come to realize that. Even the sparklers. Like the children's party sparklers and birthday cake sparklers and. Party poppers. Would be effectively be banned with using this bylaw. I felt like. That was not the intention of the bylaw. I felt like. In effect. We can all picture, unfortunately. On canada day. Children celebrating the country with sparkles on hand and someone calling bylaw because the spark lizard band. I just felt like that was too much. And I appreciate. The counselors that have reached out and support. I just feel like carving this out of the bylaw is the right thing to do at a minimum, and we shouldn't be having this conversation about party poppers and sparklers. I just feel like that's too much. Okay, I have one question. From Councillor alt to staff, and then I'd

like to just call the vote on this. Okay. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. I do support the principles behind what Councillor Gibson has presented. And I will likely vote for it. I just wish to ask staff if there are any challenges. As a consequence of this amendment before we vote upon it. Through the mayor. I'm going to defer perhaps to the fire chief, if he would. Like to comment from a safety perspective. Thank you, your worship. To members of council. I don't have empirical data to back up my experience, but I can share with you. Two particular anecdotes where I have responded in an emergency situation to a child. A young one in particular. About seven to nine year old girl who was burned with a sparkler. That was shoved in her face. Sustaining significant and painful burns. I don't think any firefighter or parent ever wants to see that. And I

know that's not the intent of the sparkers. I understand the joy in the excitement. That kids have, but they do tend to run around with those sparklers and then it's, not just the dangers to themselves. There's a danger to other children with the use of those sparklers. I think that's the extent of my ability to comment on that amendment. Thank you. Thank you very much for being candid on that. I appreciate that. And I suspect that there are many household tragedies that are very similar. I'm certainly guilty of having a fireplace in my house, and that causes me some anxiety. With kids as well. Permit made. Taken for the fireplace, by the way. However, the point is, I think I shall still support Councillor Gibson's motion. I believe that it is likely the case that, as I said, there are many household concerns nonetheless. This is a minute aspect of what we're talking about, which I will speak to, perhaps. In the remarks that I'll make after this motion. Sure. Absolutely. I can put you. Down first on the list for comments if you wish. Okay, I'd like to call the vote on. Sparkle or

no sparkle. So I'm going to call the vote. Is anyone not in favor of the amendment? Okay, so that passes unanimously. Thank you. If there's nothing more. On the main motion with that amendment. If there's nothing more. May I? Look to. Okay, I look to comments, then before the vote, okay? Councilor alt and Kate, please. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. I move the motion? Because I'll be quite honest, I love fireworks. I think they're. Great. But I am in favor of regulation for a number of reasons, and as a point. Of personal privilege. Before I begin, I would like to state and make it very clear for the community that the intention of counsel in considering the banning or restricting of fireworks should not be constru. Construed as being anti canadian antideversity or an attack on cultural practices. We as a Councillor must respond to concerns of safety, public standards and environmental concerns as they arise. And this has not been considered since 1993, and we are now 2024, so it is worthwhile to

reconsider this. We must also respond to community well being. Some people in a rapidly growing community experience fire. Fireworks as a trigger for PTSBD because they came from a war zone. Coincidentally remembering that fireworks are an explosive. People clearly, I agree, are not going to necessarily stop using fireworks because of a law. Some people never quit smoking yet. Well, restricted smoking years ago because we believed it was the right thing to do. It was a public Health and safety initiative. The fireworks initiative is public health, safety and an environmental initiative. Considering a ban on fireworks is our job. Our job is not to throw up our hands and to say, that some will break the law. Therefore, we should not try it. It's imperative that we do try it. We must legislate for the good of the community, and that's what we are considering here today. Thank you so much. I have Keaton and Guller. Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor. Fireworks are pretty chemical explosions. If allowed at all. They should be handled by train and insured people. We have backyard fire bands. We

shouldn't be allowing backyard explosions. We have listened to the fire chief on safety. For encampments. Why would we ignore their advice on fireworks? We shouldn't be carry picking community safety because some people enjoy something that's deemed unsafe. There are options like laser and drone shows, so we're not preventing celebrations. It's an evolution of safety and environmental policy. We require insurance for all sorts of entarks that have less going on than explodes. So I don't think that's a big issue. To be blocking us from creating this bylaw. And even though I too have enjoyed fireworks in the past, nostalgia is not a good enough reason to ignore known dangers. So I think staff did a great job at balancing access with safety. And the majority of the residents surveyed so that they would be okay with a total ban, so. I think that what staff is proposing is a good path forward. Thank you so much, Councillor Cayton. Councillor Galler, please. Thank you. Thank you. Through your worship. I've heard from many of my constituents about

this issue, and overwhelmingly they supported the staff. Recommendation. Many of them would have liked to see the city go farther in a total ban of all fireworks, but I understand. That. We have to. Be open to cultural celebrations, to special events. So I believe that city staff have presented an appropriate approach. That allows for those celebrations while limiting the amount of fireworks that we're going to see. Three days before, five days after. By prohibiting. The sale of retail fireworks. And I know that overwhelmingly my constituents who have pets who suffer because of this and were woken up in the middle of the night the week before and the week after. Allowed. Fireworks are allowed. I know they will be grateful for ghost city councillor moving this forward. Thank you, worship. Thank you, Councillor Goer. Councilor O'Rourke and then Busatill, please. Marcus. Apologies. I had a couple of questions and it went by too fast, so would you indulge. Me. So through Yumarigustra to staff. I

just want to be clear. There is no draft by law right now for fireworks. Right? This is direction to say based on these recommendations, you should go and write a new bylaw, is that correct? Through the mayor to Councillor Rock. That is correct. The direction would be for stop to take it. Away and to create a bylaw based on a permit system and then bring it back. Forward to, Councillor, for the consideration. Okay. And through you, Merriga three. I'm just. Curious. So in the recommendations you have these minimum safe distances, discharge distances. Should the motion fail. And we say, want to stick with the bylaw that we have. Could we not just add these discharge distances to the current safety recommendations that are on the website? Through the merit of Councillor Rourke. So the question is, if this motion fails, could there be another? Direction to stop to add distances to the existing bylaw. Yes. Okay. Thank you. My last one. Merga. Three. So currently on our website, it says, and we may as well.

Say it for Devali. And before the next opportunity to sell fireworks. People who set off fireworks and public parks currently need a permit, correct? Through the mayor to Councillor O'Rourke. That is correct. They would have to have the permission. Of the city to discharge fireworks. Right. So, three Megatri, do you think most people are aware of that.

Through the merit Councillor work? I wouldn't know the answer to that. Other people's. I wouldn't know the answer to that, all right? Thank you, Mr. Godfrey, for your comments. So, Amarigothri, if I can do comments. I've been back and forth on the staff recommendation and on a few things. I can't endorse. The banning of the sale of a product that is legal and that can be purchased online or in any surrounding communities then. Moreover, if you were to ban the sale here in Guelph, there is zero opportunity for point of sale education. I will add, which I think is a really important component going forward. I would add, also that this proposed bylaw would require somebody to get a license, and I tried to go on the website because I don't ask somebody to do something I wouldn't. Do myself. It was actually really hard just to get past the QR codes and all those things, so. There's a cost, then there's additional costs in terms of. The permitting with the city. And I just

don't think that's a real priority for me personally or. The city. The other thing is, if you ban the sale and the use of residential or retail, fireworks, the commercial ones are louder. So the concerns around the environment, the concerns around noise, what we would continue to permit is actually potentially worse. So really, for those reasons. I would prefer to keep our current bylaw. Perhaps add some discharge distances. Change the time and focus on education and enforcement. Because even if we move to a permit based bylaw, people will still be setting them off. At two in the morning, which is unpleasant for everybody, and I just don't see how. We can enforce. The new permit base. So the people who are law abiding and trying to do it properly will incur more costs. And then we will still have a problem enforcing the folks that are not doing it based on the new bylaw, so. On that. In that vein, I won't support the staff recommendation. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you very much, Councillor. Councillor

Busuto. Thank you. And to echo what my Councillor. Colleague, sorry, through the mayor. As an italian Maltese, I think every single day. We had a feast of some, say, saint or celebration growing up, so fireworks almost every single day. And so, while they're beautiful, I too will be supporting the staff. Recommendations? I wish it went even further. In a neighborhood. Where they are going off in backyards and have caused damage and have caused fire. I'm concerned about this. And so I do support. The staff recommendations. I do not want to see fireworks going on in residential backyards. I have a number of neighbors who will be celebrating Dawali, and I spoke to them about. Councilor Gibson's amendment. And I quickly called to say thank you because they are quite happy to celebrate Dawali in their backyard with their sparklers and the kids there. I am very concerned about all of the impacts. And so I am happy to support. This recommendation. And thank you, councilor.

Is there anything more for. Okay. Councillor Gibson. With comments. Thank you to you, Mr. Mayor. So. I'll try and be brief. I am on the education and enforcement side of this discussion. I think that we still have a lot of work to do on the education and enforcement side. Specifically before. I'm comfortable moving to a full ban or even restricted ban on. Consumer fireworks. Two stories. The one delegate who talked about the community event that happens at his house every Victoria day. I can 100% relate. Every candidate day for the last six years. Down at the lake, our family cottage. We have almost the entire street show up, and for one time. One night for half an hour. As the sun goes down, we see everyone on our street. And we touch base and we say, how are the kids? And how is this and how's? That we have one neighbor down there that doesn't like that, and that's. The other side of the argument. Our family dog goes inside. He kind of knows the routine now. But for us, it's a true enjoyment of the day, Canada Day. And it does bring community together.

So could we do it better? Are we doing anything wrong? Could we be better educated, maybe? We're never reckless. We're always trying to be as safe as we can, but. Even in our case. Could we learn to discharge them better? Could we learn to dispose of them? Better. Of course. And that's kind of where I come down. On this argument today just because I do think that we do have some time, and I don't want. To make a rash decision on an outright ban. On the idea of animals. I am sensitive to animals. Again, I've mentioned that our dog doesn't love them. Those inside. I do hear for a few days after each long weekend that fireworks are permitted. A few email about animals not enjoying them. And I'm not trying to draw false parallels here, but. I do hear. An excise number? More like an enormous number. More. About family pets on trails and sharps and paraphernalia and consuming things that. They shouldn't, then I do fireworks. So, again, not drawing parallels. I'm just saying. That it is a concern, but it's not the driving concern for animal welfare that I'm aware of in the city, but I do appreciate everyone's conversations, despite my

amendment. To allow party poppers and sparklers. I still will be not supporting the staff recommendation. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anything further at all before I call the vote? Okay. I know that. I'll call the votes after I speak. Then I know that. At the committee meeting. I said something to the effect of the status quo. Can't remain, and I still stand by that. However. In trying to address the status quo. Does it mean that we have to swing the pendulum so? Far. To be. Overregulation and making it so onerous on what I believe is actually not a very big issue in our city compared to the other issues that we're all trying to deal with. And so the status quo issue for me to change, which I still want to follow. Through on is some of the other things that. Have been given us suggestions like education, like distances, like increased fines, which I brought up at committee. And so I think that's

where we can challenge the status quo, and that's where we can try to have some oversight on this and not in the manner in which it's been presented, so I too will not be supporting it as recommended, so I'll call the vote. Is anyone against what's before us? Right? Now, please raise your hand. All right, so Billings and Gibson and Clawson and Guthrie. And o'rourke. And Richardson and Chu. And so it fails. Okay. So we do have some people that are. Wishing to maybe talk about those issues. Of challenging the status quo, maybe amending a few things and trying something different to address some. Of the issues. Councillor O'Rourke, you had mentioned that. You have some ideas? I think Councillor Chu maybe as well. Councillor O'Rourke, you go first. Thanks, Margot. Three. So I have three. Two circulated earlier and one that I just circulated, and they have been shared with clerks. So I'm happy to read those. So currently, the permitted hours for fireworks

are inexplicably from 09:00 a.m.. To 1159. I'm not sure why they start at 09:00 a.m. To between 09:00 a.m. And 11:00 p.m. Which aligns with most noise bylaws for clubs and things, so I'd like to see that time reduced that point of sale. Employees be required to provide information on fireworks safety and gulf rules and guidelines to purchasers of fireworks. And that Stabbie directed to consider not the higher fine one, because I know my colleague has one. That minimum safe distances from residences and all vulnerable occupancies. School nursing and care. Facilities be added to the current bylaw. I think that's a good ad. Are we going to take off number three? Yeah, or taking off number three. And I have a new three. You have a new number three? I do. Just wait a second and we'll. Just get that fixed. It's okay. Everyone take a breath. So through you. May I go through to staff or counsel? I don't know if anybody. Wants to change the 09:00 a.m. I don't know why we're allowed to start them at 09:00 a.m. Okay, let's just again slate to get up on the screen. Did you have

a second, or. I'm so sorry. Yes. Councillor Gibson said he was okay. While it's getting amended. Can I just ask you a quick question? Could you say something? About distances. From, like, daycares or something, or schools just don't know of a daycare. That would be open. No. Care facilities. I misunderstood you. I'm sorry. So that's the language that I pulled from the second staff report we've had. A couple of documents now, but I like the concept of those minimum safe distances. Okay, so I'll just read it then I'll hand it back to you if. That's okay. So the minimum safety. This is the new number three that the minimum safe. Distances from residents and all vulnerable occupancies, schools, nursing and. Where's my glasses? Because I can't look at my screen. I got to go. Up here be added to the current bylaw. Okay, you have the floor. Did you want to say anything more, or is that straightforward enough? I have already had a request to split them out, so I'll call the vote on each. One. Okay. Is there anything more? No, I think it's pretty self explanatory. I tend to agree. Do I have to have any questions on this at all? Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Merritt. Really quick point of clarification to staff the minimum. Safe. Distances, conversation. There is no number. There's a number in the memo, but. I'd like to know whether or not that minimum safe distance conversation will be for counsel. Or will it be delegated to staff to determine again? I know there's a number. In the memo. I'm not sure we've had that conversation yet, or even if. We have to. That's a question to staff. True merit to Councillor Gibson. The distance to setback distance that was provided in the memo was based on what other municipalities have determined. We would review. The setbacks. Of all municipalities and come up with one that is appropriate for the city. Guelph based on input. From the fire chief. I believe the setback distance currently is from a premise. Or. A property that has. A flammable. Combustion of source as well as vulnerable premises. The setback that was

given was 300 other municipalities have increased at 500 other municipalities have it. Up 200. So we would take that away and come up with an appropriate setback for Guelph. Okay, one quick follow up, if you don't mind. The wording I remember from the memo specifically cited bulk fuels. So where it manufactured stores or transports, bulk fuels. I'm assuming that's not a lawnmower or a car or something like. That. You're talking about gas stations, bulk fuel supply places, propane cylinders, things like that. Through the mayor. The Councillor Gibson. That is correct. Okay. I'm much more comfortable, thank you. Alt and ambusatil, please. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. I'm not going to propose amendments, but I'm not going. To support at least number one, I would be looking for staff to make recommendations on times I believe, and I have no foundation for this, but that. 09:00 a.m. Probably. Comes from a time when I was a kid, when that was the time we were permitted to let off firecrackers in the morning. And it seems to me I don't recall people letting off fireworks at 09:00 a.m. In the morning, but I can't put an appropriate time

on there. Because I think that's likely seasonal based upon when sunset is so consequently, it would be up to staff to recommend that, and hence. I can't support that. As for the closing time, the problem with that for me is that if fireworks are going off on the Monday night of a long weekend, which they often do, that clearly does interfere with the rest time for some children as well. And I believe that we would need to truncate that as well. Thank you. Maybe I could just get some commentary from staff. And I know our deputy CIO. Colleen clock bush wanted to also address maybe just something else that was mentioned, too. So in response to that, Colleen. Thank you. And through you, Erica, I just wanted to provide just the clarification. For Councillor that the intent is that we would be bringing this back as a fully formed bylaw, given all of the feedback that we're receiving tonight and that it would come back at the end of. The night as a bylaw on a Councillor meeting. So I just want to make sure that. We're clear, this would not be coming back for another presentation. Staff report open for delegations. It would simply come back, like we do when we bring other bylaws at the end of the night. Now, of course, it is always council's discretion to consider that bylaw and decide if when you see it in its final form, you're

satisfied with it. But for that reason, I would say the more specificity you can give us tonight, the better. We will, of course, go away if there are things that still need interpretation. We will then work with our legal staff to make sure that is clearly defined and articulated in the bylaw. So we will take everything that you direct us to do tonight. And if there is anything that needs final clarification, we will do that. But I just wanted to make. Sure that everyone was clear that when we say we are bringing it back, that isn't. Coming back for another evening of delegations and. Debate. It would simply be on the bylaws at the end of the night. Thank you. I think Councillor Alt has been nice enough to not have the floor still, but I do need to kind of follow up on one of his questions, if you don't mind. Councillor. Alt like the 09:00 a.m.. Thing. Is that a carryover from ancient days past or. Is that? Because their relevancy to what Councillor alt has brought up there. Because it feels to me like 09:00 a.m. Seems a little odd to me as well, so it feels like a relevant question. To you, mayor. The existing bylaw says DM, and I think that's where it's coming. From, okay? I kind of figured

that, too. So. Have you ever had any issues? Of that in your time here. Of complaints between. Like 09:00 a.m. And sort of the range. I'm sure there's been some complaints or the time that I've been here, but not that many that I can recall. Okay. Thank you. And. I guess. I guess, in a way, I'm just trying to go back to what Councillor Gibson did. As an amendment earlier. There could be sparkles which would be covered under the bylaw. That could be done at 10:00 a.m. 11:00 a.m. 12:00 noon, depending on the celebrations that are happening. So I guess the bylaw then would allow it because it covers it from 09:00 a.m. Would that be correct? Two married? That would be correct. Okay. And I'm going to go back and give the floor to Councillor alt. I'm following up on that. One of my concerns with it also. Not only are sparklers permitted at 09:00 a.m. But so are explosions. Which make noises. And

the comment about daycare is perhaps not being open. I'm not certain that that's entirely true. All. The time either. So consequently, I think we need to consider the 09:00 a.m.. As being perhaps just a titch too generous on fireworks at this point. I certainly know many parents who have their children. In some form of care. On weekends when fireworks are normally set off. Thank you so much. Councillor Busatill, please. Yes, thank you. And I have a question for. Staff just around the distance is that auditory having a dog who gets quite upset. At a distance. Is it an auditory distance? And also living in a neighborhood with refugees where this is quite distressing to them. Through the merits of Councillor basal. That would be just a measured distance. 300 meters, 500 meters. From. Whatever originating point it would be. So if it's a gas station, it would be from that property. And the other part of it was around the reference to schools. Again, if

we have a map. For school board property versus city parks. Just not suggesting that. People do not distinguish between city parks and school board property, and similar to city property, permits are required for schools and having a dog, taking it for a walk and so on, eating the waste. Of firecrackers and so on. Is there going to be a conversation with schools? Because fireworks are not permitted through community use, through school boards, and that's actually under the Ministry of Education Act. So just wondering how you're going to put this together. Talking about education, it's. Not only about city. Just ensuring that safety. I will not be supporting any of these recommendations. I'm extremely disappointed. With the recommendations that have come forward. Not enough, in my view. Okay. Thank you so much. So let's put the three up on the screen, and I'll. Have them split. And I'll do one at a time. Okay, so the first is that the permitted hours. For fireworks be changed from between 09:00 a.m. And 11:59 p.m. To 09:00 a.m. To 11:00 p.m.. And so I'll call the vote. Is

anyone against that? Two, three. I'm so sorry, Katen. Alt and busatill. All right, that passes. And so the second one is. The point of sale. Employees be required to provide information on fireworks safety and gulf rules and guidelines. For the purchasers. To the purchasers of fireworks. So call to vote on that. Is anyone against that? Okay. And alt and busatill. Okay, and. The third is. And I guess I have a question from Councillor Billings before I call a vote on that. Okay, go ahead. Okay, so even though I will support this clause, it does say. Minimum safe distances from residents and the reason why I asked the question with respect to discharge distances setback cow. And also, even tonight, With a delegate. Was that in the staff report? Yes, it had. The 300 staff are

now saying. They are going to come back and recommend so many meters. But just to put it into perspective, even though the 300 meters was in our memo, if we had 300 meters, we would not. Be even be allowed to. Have Riverside park display fireworks because 300 meters, you have to do the diameter which you're getting close to 2000ft. So the answer to one of my questions tonight was apparently Mississauga has around 26ft. So Mr. Gudfrey was again stating he was going to look at the 200 and 5300. Meters. So I'm going to ask through you, Mr. Mayor, given if this. Clause gets approved. Will you be looking at something more reasonable, like around the 26ft? Because if we don't. Then there will be no backyard fireworks. They may have Councillor Billings. Yes, we would be looking at that. Understanding that the intent is to

have a safe setback distance, but not to outright prohibit the discharge of fireworks. Other municipalities do specify setback distances from residents and other locations, and they vary from 300 to 100 meters. 30 to 100 meters. So we would take that away, determine what's appropriate for Guelph. To ensure that residents can still discharge. Whereas Mississauga has 8 meters. Okay. Thank you. It's going to go to Councillor Bouzzitill first, and then yourself. Councillor. Work. Thank you. And through the mayor. Just a question that I asked the delegates as well. I'm very concerned about backyard fireworks. Are the staff aware if household insurance permits backyard fireworks? Because I will be following up on this. As well. Good. The mayor said, Councillor Bustell. We don't know that. Thank you, O'Rourke. Please. Thank you. Margotri. So this recommendation was just lifted right from the staff report. So if people want to propose an amendment to the language and remove the

word all for vulnerable occupancies. I just liked that I wanted to retain the concept. Of a distance, particularly from nursing homes or care facilities, so I'm open to an amendment. If someone has something better to propose. Is there anyone that wishes to adjust this at this time? Okay. Would you like to adjust it yourself based on what you've just stated there, Councillor? Rourke. So, Marigold, through the piece that I'm hesitating on is it says the safe distance from residences. But some of the delegates were saying that's on all the packages, so I'll. Leave it as is. I will leave it to staff to do their research and we will see. It when it comes back in amended bylaw. Okay, so I just have a quick question before I call the vote, then. You just took the words out of my mouth. The safe distances for discharge are already printed on all fireworks anyways, so. Can't you just make the bylaw reference that the discharge. Of all fireworks. Shall be done in accordance with.

Manufacturers safe distances or something as displayed, or I'm making it up on the fly, but. You get what I'm trying to say? Yeah. We'd gather all the information, like. That and from the other municipalities to the fire chief and come up with a recommendation provide Councillor. But, yeah, we'd be looking at that as well. The recommendation is 300 meters. From what was in the memo was 300 meters from a vulnerable residence or premise or location that had a combustible. So. Obviously, we would want to make sure that anyone discharging fireworks would also do so in recommendation. Whatever. It's on the package as well. Yes, that's fine. All right. Thank you. I just wanted to flush that a little bit. All right, so we'll leave that to you to consider before the final bylaw comes. Forward. Okay, so I'll call the vote on that. Is anyone against that? So that would be alt and katen and busatill. Okay, thank you. And then the final one, I think. Councillor Chu, you have something. Did you send it to clerks? Okay, we'll wait for that to go up on the screen and I'll read. That out loud.

Pardon me, Councillor, too. Is there a different motion that you want to display? Can we just do. This one. I think it would be better if we do the third one first. Okay. It's just. To increase the sign. It's the motion to increase the fine. Okay, yeah, we'll throw that out there. It's yours. You get to choose. Can you put that on screen? So we can all see it together. Yeah. It's coming up all the three days when it comes up. First of all, do you have a seconder? Okay. Councilor Richardson. That staff be directed to seek approval from the regional senior justice for new set fines related to the fireworks bylaw and that the set fines submitted for approval are greater than the administration fees. And take into consideration the impact. The violation may have on the public. Councilor Chu. I'll turn the floor over to you on this. Yeah. So basically, in the motion that the memo that was provided to us, It essentially implicated that if we were to have a permit system, that the permit itself. Would be. The fee for the permit would be less than the amount of the fine. But obviously we're not talking about that anymore because that failed. However. I do want to suggest to staff

that. We suggest increasing the fines for anyone. That's prohibiting. Our bylaw that we're going to have. If you don't mind, I just. Want to try to help. Okay. I saw that you have created your motion. Under the pretense that the bylaw had passed. That's why you're referencing the permit. But now that that's not there and your intent is just to try. To pass a motion tonight to have staff go away to try to increase the fines should the motion, not even reference the permit issue. Perhaps we can get rid of the permit, but. Talk about looking at increasing the fines for the new bylaw that's coming forward, so. That's what I'm trying to get at. Yeah, I understand that. So what I'm trying to help you with. Is that what's on the floor? Might be easier if you just remove it. And you rewrite it quickly, okay? That doesn't reference the permit. Because that's nonexistent anymore. Am I saying the right thing, staff? I want to make sure I'm giving the right advice here. I'm sorry, as the chair, but if staff have. Am I saying the wrong. Thing. To the mayor. You are correct.

With that in a minute. Yeah, hold on 1 second. I apologize for doing this on the fly. This is all just coming up as we speak. But I don't think there's any references to the permit in my motion, but. If there is or if there's a suggestion of that, please feel free to advise clerks. Are understanding what to change. So this is it right here. Okay. So can someone please explain to me and counsel, what does it mean by greater than administration fees? I don't think there are any administration fees now. To the mayor. That is correct. I'm sorry I said permits, but I guess it's administration fees. That needs to be removed. Okay. There is no administration fees, so I believe that your motion probably should. Read. Related to the fireworks bylaw. And to take into consideration the impact the violation may have on the public. And take out the whole middle part because it doesn't exist anymore. Councilor Chu, if you're okay with that. I'm pretty sure. Our clerks are already on the

fly. Yeah. No, that's perfect. Thanks for the help before. We move on any further. Staff, does that make the intent clear? Everyone understand that? Okay, I'm. So sorry. Councilor Richardson. You're still okay with that? Okay. Clerks. Do I need to go through the formal process of asking the original one to be removed? And no, you're okay. I want to make sure we're okay. With that now. Let me go to. If you could turn off your microphone. If I could go to Councillor alt. With a question, click one through you to staff. If we could just have explained to us what the regional senior justice is and where that person actually sits. Through mayor to Councillor. The senior regional justice is part of the court system. So all are set fines that are issued under the Provisional Offenses Act. Are submitted. For their consideration. Yeah. It's like a hierarchy process where it has to flow through them to get allowances. For us to change things. Thank you. Just never heard the expression before. Yeah,

the last time we did it was during Covid. I think it was like nuisance party find increases or something. Am I right? Wow. Second time I've been right, all right. Any questions on this one before I call the vote? Caller? Thank you. Through worship to the staff. Based on the warning of the motion. How would you? Go about choosing. What amount we would recommend. Through the merit of councillor caller as part of our current process, we would look at other bylaws that the city has, such as the nuisance bylaw or the noise bylaw. As well as looking at the fines of other municipalities surrounding us to find out what that is. And then to take in some of the consideration that Councillor had regarding. The impact to the public. So we would come up with a recommendation based on all that, okay? Thank you for that. It's good to hear that you'll take into account the impact to the public. Thank you. All right, I'm going to call the vote then, on this one. Okay. So is there anyone against that? Just Councillor Busatil is against increasing fines and Katen. So that's. Two. Two are against the increasing of fines. Okay? And then let's go

to your last one. Councillor too. Which was. I'm so sorry. I can't remember what. It was. I think it was up on the screen. Had staff be directed to amend or replace the fireworks by law. I don't know if the wording is really right to increase the number of allowed days. That fireworks may be sold and discharged and to include other culturally significant days. Examples lunar new year and new year's eve. And improved safety. Okay. I think you're on the right track. I'm wondering if it's. A little bit too much there. Is there a seconder for this one to at least get? On the floor. Okay, Richardson. I will turn the flow over to you. Go ahead. Okay, just to lay the context here and. I apologize to my colleagues that this was produced last minute, and I can sense the energy in the room, but. Just to the folks in the public who are watching. And to kind of play on the emphasis of education. I was looking at the slide deck that we

were presented beginning of the month, and this is option two that was available. And I essentially want to find a way in which we can codify. More culturally significant holidays to be part of. The list of considerations for our new bylaw. And this is all part of the education piece. I don't want to go off further. On this, but for me, I want more regulation. But I also want to acknowledge the practicality of where we are. And for me, this is why I'm leaning heavily into education. And suggesting to staff and to my colleagues as well, to consider. Other cultural. Significant days, primarily lunar New Year. And New Year's Eve because currently we only allow for Duali if I'm correct. And this is open for debate, of course. It's already moved and seconded, so it's always open for debate. I'm just going to be blunt. Right off the top here. I believe what you're. Really just trying to do is to add two more dates. You don't have to. Get into safety. You don't have to get into. Education. That's all taken care of. Already by our staff that's already embedded in everything. So my

advice to you is that you remove this motion and you just write a motion that. Just adds the two dates to the schedule of dates allowable within the bylaw, and that's it. And let our staff take away the rest of it? I think the rest of it there is complicating a lot of things, so I'm going to pause. For a moment and go to you as the mover. Would you agree to do it that way, or do you want your motion to stand? Councilor two. I'm asking you a question. That's exactly the intent. I'm just seeking for guidance and help from staff and colleagues to get it to that. Point. But Councillor Chu, as the chair, I am giving you that guidance. I appreciate it. Great. So if you could answer my question, which was. Do you mind removing your. Motion. Yes. So that you can write a motion that is clear to just add those two dates. To the. Actual allowable dates within the fireworks bylaw. Yeah, that works for me. Councillor Richardson, are you. Okay with removing your secondary? For now. Is anyone against that on Councillor? Nobody. We're about to have our own fireworks in here. Okay, no safe distances with

me right now. Can we please have Councillor too? Can you please get. On your keyboard and work with clerks to get that done. Is it already done? Is it edited? Councilor alt. I see you, but we're pausing for a moment because. I got to deal with this issue.

To our bylaw manager to Doug. Did you want to say something? Yeah, just go ahead. To you, Councillor. The way that the motion is being drafted right now, it's being sold. And discharged. So you'll restrict the selling for two days only. I think that if you're adding days, we can reflect that the current days that sales are permitted. And amend it so that. There's the ability to purchase before those days. We're going to just allow the clerks to capture that, okay? And Councillor Chu will just wait for a moment. Beautiful.

There it is. Councilor Chu, it's your motion. Do you agree with this motion to table? Yes. This is beautiful. You don't have to. Copy me, but. Okay. And, Councillor Richardson, are you okay? Yes. Seconding that. Okay, it's. As simple as increasing the number of allowable days for the fireworks to include Lunar New Year and new year's Eve. With that being stated, Councillor alt has a question first. Then. Or thank you, Mayor Guthrie, I have no problem with recognizing these cultural celebrations, and if we are going to include fireworks, including them in. But the quest begs another question, and that is removing certain. Days. One of the days that I think we still recognize as a fireworks day is Victoria Day. And I'm not certain how culturally relevant that one is, and I'm wondering if staff could take it under consideration that there might be days that should be removed as well. Okay. Council. I've lost it. Councilor clock bush. Our deputy cio, colin clock bush. Sorry. So through the mayor. I think one of the things that we're struggling with is. Sending us a way

to make that decision. There could be lots of culturally significant days, and I think that opens a significant challenge for us. Especially to bring this back. In a complete bylaw. I do also want to flag the motion as it just appeared on screen still doesn't talk about the sale, so it's only allowing the discharge and the current bylaw is very clear. About. There are only certain days in a year where you can sell fireworks, and that was actually misstated, I think, in a couple of the delegations that you heard tonight. Currently, the bylaw that stands now. Because you haven't amended it or changed it only allows the sale. Of fireworks leading up to Victoria Day and Canada day. So if you add additional days, you need to add the sale. And I would also note we do not currently under the bylaw, allow the sale of fireworks leading up to Dawali. We allow the discharge of fireworks, but not the sale. And again, we didn't address that. Because it was the staff recommendation that the entire. Bylaw was being changed. So given the current trajectory that we are on, We need very clear direction on

which days in the year, and that it is to include the sale. As well as the discharge of fireworks. And at this point, as I think we understand it, it's Victoria Day, Canada day Dewali and then adding in the Lunar New Year and New Year's Eve. But we very much need that direction. I think we all really appreciate that guidance there. There's a ton of nuance as you rightly raised. Councilor o'rourke, please. After that. Thank you. Margothri. I'm looking at the city of Web welf website. Under fireworks. Fireworks displays are allowed on private property on the day before and the day of Victoria. Day, the day before and the day of Canada Day Devali either October or November, depending on the cycle of the moon, then other religious events approved by the Guel fire department. So people can. Go now. Right. And as permitted by the gulf fire chief, So rather than dream something up on the spot when we've been in meetings since 03:00, and the public has not had an opportunity to delegate.

My position is going to be that the existing bylaw already allows for that, and the existing bylaw already allows for a licensed pyro technician who wants to do something in a park, get a special event permit. And they work with the fire department to make sure that that. Is also still permitted under the existing bylaw, so I don't want to add or subtract tonight with zero consultation. Because I think the existing bylaw allows for that. Councilor chief. Go ahead. Just say what you want to say. So I appreciate all the clarity tonight. It's a little messy. I apologize, and I appreciate my colleagues clarification. So I'm happy to withdraw the motion as a stance. And was beyond our way. Okay. All right. Councilor Richardson is okay for removing the second or is anyone against that on Councillor that would be nobody. Thank you. Just before. I go to end this conversation, we can move into the chairs and vice chairs issue. Councillor downer. Did you have another question on this issue? Well. Why do we have an occurrence bylaw the day before and the day

of Pretoria? And the day before. Canada Day. I don't understand. This day before. Stuff, because. You said the status quo wasn't good. Well, that's part of the problem, is. That it happens all weekend. So on those days, So if we're looking at specific days, I'd rather have specific days rather than. What it's saying here where it can be any religious holiday. Or as permitted by the fire chief. It just seems we need. The list of specific dates like we had in the bylaw that was before us tonight. The recommendations. That would be my recommendation. I don't like the day before. Piece of the day. Before. I'm supportive of the days that and. That would sort of help with that. The status quo isn't good that it's not the whole weekend. Through the mayor of Councillor Downer. I believe the day before Victoria Day or Canada day, was. To allow for the discharge on a Saturday when Canada day fell on a Sunday so kids could stay up a little bit later and watch the fireworks.

I think that was the original intent. That was the original intent. But that wasn't your recommendation in the bylaw coming forward. Through the mayor. Councillor Downer? Correct? We're recommending that it be limited because of the complaints that we get on the weekends. Would I move that the date sets in the recommended bylaw? That the fireworks only be allowed on the days that were in the recommended bylaw. As of this date. Is that the motion that I would.

I was going to something and it was a grained out, and then it was like, moved. To the next day to allow. That. Does that cover it off, then? In the current bylaw, if there's an inclement weather issue.

To the mayor. In the past, we discharged fireworks on New Year's Eve and that sort of thing for other celebrations that were approved by the fire chief. So there has been dates that have been amended. So I guess.

I could just say that. The day before. Victoria Day and the day before Canada Day be removed from the current bylaw.

So sorry. Councillor alt will second that. So it's to remove. The day before. Issue on the dates of significance of when they would be actually discharged. And to our deputy CIO clock Bush did you want to jump in as that's being crafted. What was the other day? Victoria day through the mayor. So thank you. So I think that gives us the clarity. I would still just remind Councillor that at this point, we still do not permit the sale of fireworks leading into dewali unless somebody makes that motion. For us to add that in. So those are just the two things. So I think as we're working this through, Council. Yes. So I think the first piece about Councillor Downer's motion. I will say that I think. The way that staff was proposing this was intended to. We've deviated from the staff. Recommendation. And so if you hear us, we're struggling a little bit down here. It's. Because a lot of this is on the fly. And also, there is still now a burden. Remaining on the fire chief. To be approving. Particular exemptions and exceptions, which I think we were hoping to get more specificity

if I can use that word again. But again, any clarity that you are giving us is helpful. So. Yeah, what I'll do is I'll just handle Councillor downer's. Motion, and then we'll deal with the sale issue for Devali, okay? Okay. Councillor Downer, just. You got your microphone. Councillor Downer. Councillor Downer. Council downer. Get your microphone on. Do we have the motion up on the screen yet, clerks? Okay, no problem. Councilor alt I think I already said his seconding. Okay, so here it is. To remove the day before, Victoria Day and Canada day from the current fireworks, bylaw. Okay. Any issues from staff on that? It would limit it now to just those days. As described. Hold on. I do have a question. What does our current bylaw say about Duvali, then? I'm just wondering if that needs to be added. But on that day, not be day before or anything like that, I

just want to make sure. Doug. Mayor. I believe it's quite specific for dwali. Okay. I just want to make sure. Cool. Just want to make sure as we're trying to do things on the fly. And we're catching things too. Okay. All right. Question from Councillor Chu. Then I'm going to call. And a question from. Councillor Gibson, and then I'm going to call the vote. Yeah, just through the mayor to staff. I just want to be very, I just want to have some clarity because I'm looking city's website and it says in Gulf firework, displays are allowed on private property, and there's a whole list. But the end there says, as permitted by the Gulf fire chief, so. If a group wanted to come in for Lunar New Year or Dwali, could they, as of right now. Seek that approval from you as a chief. I'm not going to allow that question right now. That's a question that's. Not relevant to the motion that's on the floor, so please just park that for. Now. Okay, I need to call the. Sorry. Councillor Gibson. I saw that you wanted to ask a. Question on what's relevant on the floor. No, not a question, just a quick comment. I feel like there's unintended consequences to making this decision.

And. I'm begging forgiveness because I feel naive in saying that, but. I believe the idea of candidate falling on a Tuesday, and everyone wanted to celebrate it on Monday. Or Victoria Day. People wanted to set off their fireworks on the Sunday or Saturday night instead of the Monday. I feel like we are risking more here than just. A simple let's just get rid of one day. Also, the rain out dates, I think. That's an important one to consider, too. So I'm going to say I'm going to vote against this one, not because I don't like the idea of controlling the number of days, but I do believe there's going to be unintended consequences. For those big celebration days. And so, for that reason, I'm just going to say no now. And whatever happens, happens. But I'm sure staff are able to take this away and come back with something a bit more formalized. If this is something that fails, staff can still consider it. As something that Councillor is aware of. Okay. Thank you. Okay, I'm going to call the vote on Councillor Downer's. Motion.

Is anybody against that one? So it's. Chu richardson. Just 1 second. I'm counting. Billings, Gibson. I'm not clear what we're voting on, you, worship. Can I see? It on the screen. We'll put up on the screen. So how are you voting? So we're good. All those against, please raise your hand one more time for the clerks. Guthrie, chu richardson, gibson billings. It's five. Passes. Okay. We still have to take care of as our deputy CIO indicated. I'm so sorry. Is it the. Sale. For Duwali. So, mr. Mayor. Yes, and I'll defer to Mr. Godfrey, but I believe currently the bylaw allows. The sale of fireworks up to seven days, up to and including the day of Victoria Day in Canada day, but we currently do not have a clause in our bylaw permitting the sale in advance of Dawali.

We didn't add it in because we weren't proposing. This change to the bylaw. But now that we're here, I think it would be. Important. From an equity point of view. To add that in permitting the sale of fireworks for the seven days leading up to and including Dawali. Okay, and who would be willing to do that? Richardson, would you be willing to do that? Could you send a quick email to clerks, please, and who would be willing to second that? Okay, Gibson. So I believe the language is seven days prior to. Up to seven days prior to.

And clerks. Whenever you have it ready, just throw it up on the screen for us there.

Thank you so much. The sale of fireworks is restricted. I think it was supposed to be permitted. But the sale of fireworks be permitted up to seven days prior to. Do we have to add? All the Victoria Day candidate in Dawali? No, I thought it was just dewaly. Okay. To our deputy CaO, could you please say it one more time so that we can get the proper wording. So through. Mr. Meredith. Mr. Godfrey. I don't recall what the words are for Canada Day. And Victoria day in the current bylaw. We want to mimic that. So, Doug, can you help? To the mayor. I believe that's correct. We get the direction that the sale of fireworks be restricted to seven days prior to Victoria Day, seven days prior to a Canada day, and seven days prior to the walling. So you're okay with that? Perfect. All right, I'm going to call the vote on that, then. Okay. Is there anyone against that. Okay, just. Councillor Guller

is against adding the sale for Dawali. Okay. Thank you. That. Passes. Okay. Is there anything more on fireworks? Okay, Councillor Goer. Your worship, just go back to the comment. That you made that the status quo. Wouldn't stand. And when we did our public engagement with a survey we heard from 56% of the community that wanted a fireworks plan, only 35% that was against the ban. And I'm wondering. Through you to staff. Is there anything else at this point that we should do to improve the situation. In reference to your question. That. Things are not working well at the moment and stuff came forward with a recommendation which this body decided to reject, and I'm very concerned that we haven't actually made things better. For people that have concerns for the 56% of growth residents that won at a total ban. So through you to staff. Is there anything else at this point that you might recommend? That, Councillor could do to improve your ability to manage in particular. The use of fireworks on days when

they're not permitted. Before and after the permitted days. I kind of feel like this question is out of order. The votes are all done if you have a motion that you want to bring forward to consider further because. We've already done that. As a Councillor, we've already considered things. We have made changes. We've made changes to education. To. Sale. To the days, to the hours. Allowed. So the status quo isn't there on at least those four things that I can remember. If you have a specific suggestion, go for it, but. I don't think it's to our staff to figure out something more that you think is missing. I think it's up to you to determine what you think is missing. And presented to Councillor. Well, go ahead. I'll give you the floor. Yeah, of course. Your worship. Staff took the time to develop a, well, recent proposal for us. We set that aside and we've taken a piecemeal approach to pick this and that and that. On the fly. So at this point, I just want to go back to staff and thank Councillor. Did this on the fly. We put this on the moment,

on the spot. Many of these motions. Just came forward. Is there anything from their perspective that we missed by not taking a well considered approach. I still think this is out of order. I really do. It's up to us to determine if we've determined something. I think maybe a different way of asking your question and. You correct me if I'm wrong again. I'm not trying to be argumentative. Here is. Is there any decisions that Councillor has made tonight that is problematic for you to implement? What we've made. As decisions. I don't think it's in order for you to ask. Is there anything more? That you want to do because that's not up to staff. Staff came back to us. After engagement, and we have determined as a Councillor how we want to move forward. So again, if you have a new idea, go ahead and present it. But as chair, I'm going to. Call it out of order that you're asking our staff to come up with something new. When we've already. Made that decision. I'm not your worship. I'm just asking if there was anything that we may have missed based on. The extensive public engagement that was done and the recommendations that. Were brought forward by staff. I'm seeing heads say no. I'm sorry, Colleen. I'm going to call it out of order.

I have to. Be as. The chair. So I'll leave it back to you. Do you have an idea of what you think you need to bring forward? Well, I don't. Think we should allow staff to enter into adding something more that they feel is necessary when it's up to us to determine that, right? My concern, your worship. We took the time. We did. Over six months of community engagement. We heard. Back from the community, and we made a decision that was against that feedback from the community, so. I just want to make sure that in doing this on the fly, making, choosing this and that, I feel that we may have missed something. That by setting aside the SAF recommendation, is there something from the staff recommendation that. We should go back and address, because we've taken the existing bylaw, we've added this and that and that without a coordinator approach, and I am concerned that we may have missed something. I think it's not fair to. I'm calling it out of order, okay? If you want to. Want to challenge me on that, go ahead. Councillor Kran, do you want. To challenge me on

that. But I want to comment on it. No. From a procedural point of view, there's no comment allowed. From a procedural point of. View. If there's a Councillor that wants to challenge my ruling as the chair, then you. Can do so now. Okay, so that's my ruling as the chair, okay? I am going to similarly ask a question, though, because I feel it may be relevant to what you're trying to get at. I'll say it again. Does staff feel that any of the decisions that Councillor has made tonight are impeding your ability? To implement our decisions tonight. To marry. No. Then this matter is done, okay? And we're going to move on. Thank you very much. For everybody. For that. We are going to move to Councillor appointments. This only happens twice in the year. Once at the beginning, once now. And there is kind of a flow. That I have to do. So it can kind of go fast a little bit. But just bear with me as I kind of have to go

through each one and do a flow of a procedure on how we do this, and our clerks have brought everything forward. So. There is preferences from members of Councillor of where they kind of want to sit and we're. Going to only concentrate on the chair's appointments right now. Okay? Then after that, we'll do the vice chair. So the first one to the clerks is audit. I hope you have it. In that sequence. And I only have one person that has come forward with that preference, and it's Councillor. Guller. As you can see there, it's Councillor Guller be appointed to the audit. Chair for the rest of this term. And now this is the flow part. I have to ask, is there anybody else that would like. To put their name forward for this position. Hearing and seeing none. Can I please have somebody move a motion to accept Councillor Galler as. The chair. Richardson and busatil. All right. Anything further? No. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against that? Okay, perfect. Corporate services is next. Again. We have Councillor Koran to be appointed as the committee of the whole corporate services chair. Till the end

of the term. Is there anybody else that is interested in that position? Hearing and seeing none. Can I have someone move and second that for me? For Councillor Cron. Cayton and doubter. Anything further. No. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? No, thank you. Going on to ide. So we have one person with their first preference being Councillor O'Rourke, and we have a couple of people that it was their secondary preferences, although the two people, as they're secondary, just became chairs. So I think it might be kind of easy on this one. But it is. Councillor O'Rourke. To continue as the ide chair till the end of the term. Is there anybody else? That is interested in this position. Nobody great. Is there somebody that would be willing to move? And second that galler and billings. Perfect. Is there anything more on that? No. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? No. Perfect. Now we'll go on to public services. The preference of Councillor Downer

is to remain as the chair of public services. There was no one else on that one, but I'll ask right now. Is there anyone else that's? Interested in this position. Nobody okay with some ability to move. And second downer, Busatil and alt is there. Anything on that. Hearing and seeing none. I'll call the vote. Anyone against Councillor Downer being the chair? Nobody. Great committee of management for the Elliot. That is. Councilor Downer. Pardon? Oh, we're getting there. That's vice chair. We're not quite there. I don't know. Maybe I want to reconsider. My vote for you to be the chair since you're out. Cavalier reconsideration. Not just kidding, okay? Committee of management for the Elliot. Councillor Downer is interested in that. Is anybody else interested in that? Hearing? None. O'Rourke is willing to move down her. Richardson is willing to second down her. Anything further on that. Hearing none of call the vote.

Is anyone against that? Nobody. Perfect. Now we're moving into vice chair. I need someone to help me who wants to put their hand up for the exciting world. Of vice chair of audit. Who would love that position? Counselor Richardson. All right. Would anybody else like to challenge Councillor Richardson in a singoff for that position? Nobody. Okay, who would like to move? Councillor Richardson, Chu and or Rourke will second as the vice. Chair for Richardson for audit. Is anything more on that? Nobody. Okay, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against that? Nobody. Thank you. Councilor Hayden is the first preference to stay on as vice chair of corporate services. Is anyone else interested in that position? Nobody. Okay, perfect. Who's going to help Councillor Katen get on the floor here? Busatill. And. Closet. And anything more on that? No. I'll call the vote. Anyone against that?

Nobody. Awesome. Okay. Ide. For vice chair. We have Clawson, O'Rourke and Koran that were interested. But since Ork and Koran are now chairs. Maybe they'd be cool to let flawson take that spot. Is there anyone other than Klosson that's interested? Nobody. Who's going to help Clawson. Get on the floor here. Galler and Gibson. Perfect. And is there anything more on that? Nothing. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against that? Nobody awesome. Public services. We have nobody. Well, there was Katen that was interested as a second preference, but she. Is already vice chair. Phil. Okay, perfect. I'm sorry, Councillor alt to be professional about it. Is there anyone other than Councillor alt. Perfect. Who wants to help me put Councillor alt on the floor? Busatill and Katen. Great. Any thing further on that? No. I'll call

the vote. And he went against Councillor. Alt for vice chair, public services. Nobody. That's great. Governance. Vice chair. Only one person. Was strong armed. Into continuing to hang out with me a little bit. Busatill. Is anybody else willing to or does anyone else want that position for vice chair of governance? No. Okay, great. Who's going to help me put busatille on the floor here? Alton Galler. Thank you. Anything further on that. Nobody. I'll call the vote. The new one against Busatill for vice chair governance. Nobody. That's great. Committee of management for the Elliot. Clerks. Was there. A position or issued that you wanted to discuss. I forget about the vice chair for committee of management. Was there something that you wanted me to do there? I cannot recall. Through you, Mr. Merritt, just to recognize that not just any member of Councillor can act in that. Role and needs to be a member of the committee of Management, which at this point, based on the appointments would be. One of Richardson, Cayden, classin, alt or

brucetil. Richardson, Cayden class and alt busatill. And Councillor Downer is already on the committee, but as the chair. So there was nobody to put themselves down for. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. But there was one person. That did. That was Caitlin. So is Katen allowed to be vice chair? Yeah, Katen would. You like to still do that, okay. Anyone else want to challenge Aaron on that? Councillor Cayton on that? Good. Nobody. Perfect. Who? Wants to help Kate and get on the floor for vice chair. Richardson and o'rourke. Perfect. Okay. Is there anything further on that? Hearing? None. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against that? Nobody. Perfect. Was that a record clerk? Perhaps. All right. I really appreciate that. Thank you. That is very good, everybody. Congratulations on the chair and vice chair. Okay. Councilor Koran. You have the bylaws tonight? Would you like me to?

Yeah. Can you read them out for me, or do I meet you? Well, I just have to unmute at the same time. Moved by myself, seconded by my wordmate, Kathy Downer. That bylaws 2002 420994. Two, 10. 121-042-1006 be approved subject to section two eight 4.14 of the Municipal act. Thank you so much. Okay. And it's moved and seconded. So anything on. Those hearing any? I'll call the vote. Is anyone against those? That'd be nobody. Thank you. That brings us to the mayor's announcement. None and now we're looking. For. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Now I got to find them. I got town halls coming up, but I got to find where. I got to find the email. Where they are. I should have been prepared for that. I am very sorry. Give me a

moment. I'm sorry. Yes.

The chair of public services is going to help me with announcing them. Thank you, Kathy Gorehead. Okay, so the budget town halls are. For Ward five and six starting November 4 at the Salvation army citadel. At 1320 Gordon street from 630 to 08:00 p.m. November the fifth. There's a virtual town hall open to all residents. Actually, all of these are open to all residents, no matter what we're doing. Then that one, the virtual one, is from 630. To eight. November 6 ward three and four, the West End Community center in the Lions layer, room 21, Imperial Road. From 630 to eight and November 8, wards one and two at the Victoria Road rec Center in the Birch room. That's at 151 Victoria Road north. And that one, too, is from 630. To 08:00 p.m. And of course you can email the merit anytime. Yeah. Merrickwelf Ca. I. 've said all along, hearing from the community and my colleagues. Prior to the final budget deliberations, so

thank you so much. And with that, I'm going to move. Motion for adjournment. Councillor, a question. Your worship. For those of us that want to join your virtual town hall on Tuesday next week, How do we get there? Your virtual town hall? That's a good question. It will be. On Facebook live. Through. Mayor Cam Guthrie. Facebook page. Perfect. Thank you. All right. And would you still move a German for me? Thank you. And who wants to do a second or for adjournment. Gibson. Thank you. Is anyone against that? Nobody. Okay? Thanks for sticking it out. Everybody have a great. That's the end of our meeting. Thank you so much and have a good night.